Author Topic: Aerarting still hot wort  (Read 1235 times)

Offline Visor

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Aerarting still hot wort
« on: July 08, 2016, 10:50:37 PM »
   This is probably a stupid question but what are the effects of aerating wort before it has cooled, specifically doing the aeration while the beer is in the process of cooling? I use an aeration pump with an inline filter and stone diffuser.
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Offline Stevie

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Aerarting still hot wort
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2016, 10:56:01 PM »
Assuming airating hot doesn't have a negative affect on the beer (many say it does), the colder the beer, the more gas it can hold.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 11:00:19 PM by Stevie »

Offline majorvices

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Re: Aerarting still hot wort
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2016, 02:46:28 PM »
Do a search on "HSA" and decide for yourself whether or not you believe in the problems created by hot side aeration. Personally I try to avoid HSA but don't overly stress about it either. I recommend trying to minimize aeration of the wort when it is hot and I think it's best not to aerate until the wort is under 80 degrees.

Online denny

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Re: Aerarting still hot wort
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2016, 03:18:29 PM »
Do a search on "HSA" and decide for yourself whether or not you believe in the problems created by hot side aeration. Personally I try to avoid HSA but don't overly stress about it either. I recommend trying to minimize aeration of the wort when it is hot and I think it's best not to aerate until the wort is under 80 degrees.

THIS^^^^ I do believe that aeration while hot can be a problem..hot defined as above the mid 80sF.  You might be OK, but why take the chance?  In addition, since a cooler liquid will absorb more gas than a warmer one, aerating while warm is kinda pointless.
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Offline Visor

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Re: Aerarting still hot wort
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2016, 10:46:00 PM »
My search of HSA only resulted in stuff I already know about health savings accounts, please give me a clue what HSA stands for and maybe I'll make more headway.
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  V
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Offline Stevie

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Re: Aerarting still hot wort
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2016, 10:50:02 PM »
Hot side aeration

Offline MJK

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Re: Aerarting still hot wort
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2016, 12:03:02 AM »
Oxygen or any gas is less soluble in solution as temperature increases.

Also oxidation "oxidative off flavors" will increase with higher temperatures.

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Offline Visor

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Re: Aerarting still hot wort
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2016, 03:41:17 PM »
Most of a morning spent reading other's opinions and observations on the subject revealed an utter lack of consensus on the subject. I did however come across a very interesting and informative podcast interview with Charlie Bamforth that Messrs Zainasheff & Palmer did on their radio show several years ago. If you aren't familiar with the interview I think it might be worth 45 minutes of your time.
  Thanks for all the input.
  And yes I finally am making some good beers. I had an APA last night that needs another week or so of conditioning, but it tastes damn good!
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Re: Aerarting still hot wort
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2016, 03:52:25 PM »
Most of a morning spent reading other's opinions and observations on the subject revealed an utter lack of consensus on the subject. I did however come across a very interesting and informative podcast interview with Charlie Bamforth that Messrs Zainasheff & Palmer did on their radio show several years ago. If you aren't familiar with the interview I think it might be worth 45 minutes of your time.
  Thanks for all the input.
  And yes I finally am making some good beers. I had an APA last night that needs another week or so of conditioning, but it tastes damn good!

FWIW, I understand Bamforth has changed his opinion since then.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Aerarting still hot wort
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2016, 04:01:46 PM »
My search of HSA only resulted in stuff I already know about health savings accounts, please give me a clue what HSA stands for and maybe I'll make more headway.
  Thanks;
  V

BTW: If you type in "HSA Brewing" it pops up right away. Just sayin'. ;)

Offline Stevie

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Re: Aerarting still hot wort
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2016, 04:03:51 PM »
Bamforth's previous view seemed reasonable to me. Basically, a brewer should avoid HSA, but there are other staling factors of much greater concern.

Do you have a source or know what he said that was different Denny?

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Re: Aerarting still hot wort
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2016, 04:42:44 PM »
Bamforth's previous view seemed reasonable to me. Basically, a brewer should avoid HSA, but there are other staling factors of much greater concern.

Do you have a source or know what he said that was different Denny?

Haven't sourced it yet, but I understand that he said it was likely more of an issue than he had previously stated.  But I don't get the impression that his position changed a lot.
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Offline blair.streit

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Re: Aerarting still hot wort
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2016, 11:36:38 PM »
Bamforth's previous view seemed reasonable to me. Basically, a brewer should avoid HSA, but there are other staling factors of much greater concern.

Do you have a source or know what he said that was different Denny?

Haven't sourced it yet, but I understand that he said it was likely more of an issue than he had previously stated.  But I don't get the impression that his position changed a lot.
That wouldn't surprise me. If you listen to all of their shows in order you get Bamforth's "not as big a thing as we thought" and then subsequent paraphrasings make it sound even less important.

I think they were actually saying that of all the things to worry about HSA should be lower on your list than things like cleaning, sanitizing and steady fermentation temps.  Given all the debate over this topic (and the lack of debate on the other three mentioned), it seems that advice is still on target.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Aerarting still hot wort
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2016, 12:05:31 AM »
Bamforth's previous view seemed reasonable to me. Basically, a brewer should avoid HSA, but there are other staling factors of much greater concern.

Do you have a source or know what he said that was different Denny?

Haven't sourced it yet, but I understand that he said it was likely more of an issue than he had previously stated.  But I don't get the impression that his position changed a lot.
That wouldn't surprise me. If you listen to all of their shows in order you get Bamforth's "not as big a thing as we thought" and then subsequent paraphrasings make it sound even less important.

I think they were actually saying that of all the things to worry about HSA should be lower on your list than things like cleaning, sanitizing and steady fermentation temps.  Given all the debate over this topic (and the lack of debate on the other three mentioned), it seems that advice is still on target.

I thought he was saying to get other things under control first, later in the process. Cold side aeration will stale a beer regardless I'd it was brewed with care on the hot Side or not. You have to take care as you go along, and do everything low O2.
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Offline blair.streit

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Re: Aerarting still hot wort
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2016, 12:34:57 AM »
I thought he was saying to get other things under control first, later in the process. Cold side aeration will stale a beer regardless I'd it was brewed with care on the hot Side or not. You have to take care as you go along, and do everything low O2.

I agree. That's what I got out of Bamforth's comments in that show too.

I was trying to speak to some of the later paraphrasings when they would say things like "HSA is not something to worry about".  I think some people took those comments too literally and wrote off HSA completely.

My original point (which I didn't make very clearly), is that in spite of the hyperbole, I think they were simply rating HSA below a lot of other factors in terms of beer quality, not saying that it doesn't matter at all.