Author Topic: first saison  (Read 2557 times)

Offline gman23

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Re: first saison
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2016, 02:09:00 PM »
     Although it is way over style at 48.8 IBUs, only 21.2 come from the bittering charge, so to me it does not come off as overly bitter. When I first made it, it was the first saison I had made. It came out as I had expected, thus I have remade it 1x and again in 2 weeks. The Nelson at 20 minutes adds 27.6 IBUs, but with the Nelson character added that late, I really dont perceive too much bitterness from that charge.
     I guess I am wondering most about whether or not the secondary ingredients will drown out the Nelson completely, making it easy to drop it from the recipe. In that case, I would likely up the Willamette to keep the IBUs up there to offset some of the sweetness from the blackberries. The lemon balm is just something we have growing in the garden after reading about someone adding it to a saison a couple years back. I really have no strong idea about what it will bring or how powerful it will be in the finished product, hence my questions. Just trying to learn something new everyday I guess

In my experience, if you are trying to highlight a particular flavor I would back off or remove the late hops. I would likely remove the Nelson @ flameout. I am basically in the same predicament which is why I chose willamette and centennial in smaller amounts at the end of the boil than originally planned. Take my advice with a grain of salt since I have no experience with those hops or secondary ingredients. Sounds like nelson could work well with fruit and lemon balm and someone can likely chime regarding that.

Often, I want to brew a beer that achieves several things and encompasses the ideas of what should be 3 different beers but in the end (with a few exceptions) it usually ends up more muddled. For some reason, I think I can somehow brew a hoppy saison with lemon and basil but in the end I realize that is probably not a good idea...
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Offline gman23

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Re: first saison
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2016, 09:46:46 PM »
What about water profile for a saison. Thinking yellow balanced with mash pH of 5.3
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: first saison
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2016, 09:50:23 PM »
What about water profile for a saison. Thinking yellow balanced with mash pH of 5.3


I use yellow balanced @ 5.2-5.25 pH. The lower mash pH gives a slightly tart, crisp finish that goes great with the style IMO.
Jon H.

Offline gman23

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Re: first saison
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2016, 09:52:29 PM »
What about water profile for a saison. Thinking yellow balanced with mash pH of 5.3


I use yellow balanced @ 5.2-5.25 pH. The lower mash pH gives a slightly tart, crisp finish that goes great with the style IMO.

Thanks. I figured that was the case. I don't think I have gone below 5.3 yet so I guess this would be a good opportunity.
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Offline 69franx

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Re: first saison
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2016, 10:33:43 PM »
I have used Jon's advice on my saison before and loved the results, was right around 5.25
Frank L.
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Offline 69franx

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Re: first saison
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2016, 10:34:13 PM »
Jon, any thoughts on my hop schedule above with fruit or herbs in secondary?
Frank L.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: first saison
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2016, 10:46:12 PM »
Jon, any thoughts on my hop schedule above with fruit or herbs in secondary?


The IBU sound high for saison, but if you've brewed it and like it, that's all that matters. Personally, I wouldn't go too heavy with late hops in a saison with fruit/herbs in the recipe. I like to leave room for the saison yeast character to shine, but if the late hops sound good here, go for it!
Jon H.

Offline 69franx

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Re: first saison
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2016, 10:47:18 PM »
Thanks again Jon
Frank L.
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Offline dilluh98

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Re: first saison
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2016, 11:44:45 PM »
Jon, any thoughts on my hop schedule above with fruit or herbs in secondary?


The IBU sound high for saison, but if you've brewed it and like it, that's all that matters. Personally, I wouldn't go too heavy with late hops in a saison with fruit/herbs in the recipe. I like to leave room for the saison yeast character to shine, but if the late hops sound good here, go for it!

Agreed. A saison is a saison largely because of the yeast character coming through the beer. As has been mentioned previously - doing too many things in one beer makes for muddle. If I were to go the route of fruit and herbs with a saison - I wouldn't add any late hops, just a bittering charge.

Offline 69franx

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Re: first saison
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2016, 03:04:20 AM »
Thanks all, gonna just go with a bittering charge for this batch
Frank L.
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Offline gman23

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Re: first saison
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2016, 02:47:02 PM »
Thanks all, gonna just go with a bittering charge for this batch

I will likely do the same...
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: first saison
« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2016, 08:27:51 PM »
I was going to second the notion that you may want to consider dropping the IBU's if you are adding fruit. Keep in mind that blackberries will add a noticeable acidity to your finished saison and might clash a bit with the high IBU's in your initial recipe. I do think that a nice blend of Willamette and Nelson could pair well with the fruit addition, but I would not go over the top with late additions if you are looking for the fruit to be in the forefront.

Offline 69franx

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Re: first saison
« Reply #42 on: July 18, 2016, 11:34:03 PM »
Thanks, brew day is still not till the 30th and I cant wait, gonna probably stick with 25-28 IBUs Willamette at 60 and likely drop the Nelson altogether to keep it simple
Frank L.
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Offline gman23

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Re: first saison
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2016, 02:36:14 PM »
Brewing mine on Friday. Gonna shoot for about the same amount of IBUs but am still considering a small amount of late hops since I think they could complement the lemon/basil character. Just trying to figure out what hops would work best out of what I have in the freezer...
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 02:57:11 PM by goschman »
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Offline gman23

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Re: first saison
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2016, 10:12:08 PM »
Just finished brewing this. Hit my numbers which happens about 25% of the time or less so that is good. Went with the 90 minute mash at 148F so hoping that this sucker gets below 1.005 and hopefully 1.003.

I decided to go with 3/4 oz of centennial added with the lemon zest and basil at 5 min. The lemon/basil character seemed pretty mild in the sample so I am assuming it is not really going to carry through to the final product. I only went with 12 g of basil as it seemed like a lot so I wish I would have went with the full 1/2 oz. I may consider adding some more to the fermenter or just leaving it. Wishing I would have added another malt to provide some color which was probably suggested. It look like it is definitely going to be a pale yellow color.
On Tap/Bottled: Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager, Dry Hopped Peach Cider       

Fermenting: Imperial Porter, Hopfenbier
Up Next: Maibock, Braunbier