Author Topic: Red X Saison  (Read 1431 times)

Offline Stevie

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Red X Saison
« on: July 15, 2016, 03:40:09 PM »
I brewed a Red X Saison and I am super disappointed with it. I wanted to see what others have done. Recipe below.

Came out way too malty and finished a bit high even with a mash temp of 145 for 90min. Has metallic taste as well which I don't know where it came from. Saison character was pretty much lost behind the malt.

Target mash pH was 5.3, so maybe I should have targeted 5.4+? I did a side by side with a tiny pinch of baking soda and it was better, but still not anything special.

90% Red X
10% wheat malt
20 ibu of Santium at 60
1.045 - 1.009 - 4.5% ABV

Next batch I will likely add some Pils and increase he wheat. Maybe 50/30/20 - Red/Pils/Wheat malt. May even add some simple sugars.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 03:45:46 PM by Stevie »

Offline goschman

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Re: Red X Saison
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2016, 03:48:17 PM »
I brewed a Red X Saison and I am super disappointed with it. I wanted to see what others have done. Recipe below.

Came out way too malty and finished a bit high even with a mash temp of 145 for 90min. Has metallic taste as well which I don't know where it came from. Saison character was pretty much lost behind the malt.

Target mash pH was 5.3, so maybe I should have targeted 5.4+? I did a side by side with a tiny pinch of baking soda and it was better, but still not anything special.

90% Red X
10% wheat malt
20 ibu of Santium at 60
1.045 - 1.009 - 4.5% ABV

Next batch I will likely add some Pils and increase he wheat. Maybe 50/30/20 - Red/Pils/Wheat malt. May even add some simple sugars.

Red X is a super powerful malt in my opinion. I brewed a 100% Red x lager and eventually grew to like it but it took months. I got really poor attenuation for what I am used to with 34/70.

My plan for the beer is to pretty much do what you are thinking; 50/50 pils to red x with some roasted malt to make up the color.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 03:49:58 PM by goschman »
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Kolsch, Summer Gold       

Fermenting: 
Up Next: Euro Pale, IPA

Offline Stevie

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Re: Red X Saison
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2016, 03:51:59 PM »
I've read good stuff using it at 100% for a Vienna style lager, so I think that's where I am going next. Might add a touch of roasted barley (2-3oz at sparge tops) to bump the red up.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Red X Saison
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2016, 03:52:48 PM »
Yeah, it's super malty. I like it in a few styles but not in most. It tastes to me like Munich with some C60 mixed in.
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Offline goschman

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Re: Red X Saison
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2016, 03:54:17 PM »
Yeah, it's super malty. I like it in a few styles but not in most. It tastes to me like Munich with some C60 mixed in.

I can agree with this. I hear a lot say it is similar to munich but I think it is more malty and sweeter.
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Kolsch, Summer Gold       

Fermenting: 
Up Next: Euro Pale, IPA

Offline Stevie

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Re: Red X Saison
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2016, 03:57:29 PM »
Does anybody have an idea on the grain bill Stone used for their Red X IPA? I'm going to shoot them an email to see if they can share percentages, even if it is just the percentage of Red X used would be helpful.

Offline goschman

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Re: Red X Saison
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2016, 04:00:48 PM »
Does anybody have an idea on the grain bill Stone used for their Red X IPA? I'm going to shoot them an email to see if they can share percentages, even if it is just the percentage of Red X used would be helpful.

Good question. I am not a big Stone fan but I loved that beer. They only list hops for their beers on their website it seems.
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Kolsch, Summer Gold       

Fermenting: 
Up Next: Euro Pale, IPA

Offline 69franx

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Re: Red X Saison
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2016, 04:07:47 PM »
If you play around on their site, you can find several home brew scale downs of their recipes, or at least you could in the past. Seemed to be most of the brews, but never AB. Ill take a look, and post back if I find it

edit to add link:  http://www.stonebrewing.com/search?query=Recipes

try this link out, 10 pages of recipes, I only looked at page 1, but I love being able to think about brewing VErtical Epic Ale full series at home
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 04:11:43 PM by 69franx »
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In the works: Hopefully brewing 10 gallons of Pilsner tomorrow for a family reunion in July, then back to IPA and  a barleywine to age

Offline 69franx

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Re: Red X Saison
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2016, 04:18:32 PM »
After looking at it a little deeper, it seems that for some of those recipes, they do only list hops and tasting notes. I know a couple years back I was able to pull recipes for the Vertical Epic series and printed them out back then. I then searched for homebrew recipes and all 11 Vertical Epic brews have recipes listed, but I do not see the recipe for Pataskala anywhere
Frank L.
Fermenting:
Conditioning:
In keg:
In Bottles:  
In the works: Hopefully brewing 10 gallons of Pilsner tomorrow for a family reunion in July, then back to IPA and  a barleywine to age

Offline Stevie

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Re: Red X Saison
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2016, 04:19:47 PM »
They list the VE beers and some others are listed on their blog, but can't find Red X. Sent them a message. Was clear that I am only looking for a baseline and don't care for the whole grain bill. Maybe that will help.

Offline Todd H.

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Re: Red X Saison
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2016, 04:40:32 PM »
Red X is a super powerful malt in my opinion. I brewed a 100% Red x lager and eventually grew to like it but it took months. I got really poor attenuation for what I am used to with 34/70.

My plan for the beer is to pretty much do what you are thinking; 50/50 pils to red x with some roasted malt to make up the color.
[/quote]

I did a Red X lager with 34/70 and also got what I felt was low attenuation (69-70%?).   Maybe it was my lower OG (1.044), but I didn't find it super malty... came off like a light dunkel.  A little malty, a little sweet, a little boring.

Offline goschman

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Re: Red X Saison
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2016, 04:45:30 PM »
Red X is a super powerful malt in my opinion. I brewed a 100% Red x lager and eventually grew to like it but it took months. I got really poor attenuation for what I am used to with 34/70.

My plan for the beer is to pretty much do what you are thinking; 50/50 pils to red x with some roasted malt to make up the color.

I did a Red X lager with 34/70 and also got what I felt was low attenuation (69-70%?).   Maybe it was my lower OG (1.044), but I didn't find it super malty... came off like a light dunkel.  A little malty, a little sweet, a little boring.
[/quote]

Funny. I got 70% attenuation from mashing at 152F for 60 min. My OG was 1.053.
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Kolsch, Summer Gold       

Fermenting: 
Up Next: Euro Pale, IPA

Offline narcout

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Re: Red X Saison
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2016, 04:51:35 PM »
I've brewed two beers with Red X: a lager that was 100% Red X and a Belgian Red that was Red X and cane sugar.

I only have two examples to draw from, but my experience is that (i) it is more acidic than what its color would suggest, (ii) beers finish around 1.012 - 1.014, even if mashed low and fermented with an attenuative yeast, and (iii) it has a tart character (to me it tastes like cherry), which will smooth out over time.

The Belgian Red has been on tap for 2 months, and it has turned into a nice beer.

That said, I don't think I will use it as the sole malt again.
It's too close to home
And it's too near the bone

Offline Stevie

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Re: Red X Saison
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2016, 04:53:31 PM »
Interesting you say cherry. It reminds me of a beer I brewed with cherry extract way back in 2006. I was worried I lost all of my mojo.

Offline Stevie

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Red X Saison
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2016, 08:36:00 PM »
So here is my next attempt.

5lb Red X
3lb Pils
2lb Malted Wheat
2oz Roasted Barley (end of mash)
8oz  turbinado (end of boil)
147 for 90
20ibu of whatever I got at 60
Targeting 5.45-5.5 pH


Won't be able to knock it out until next weekend.