Author Topic: Thinking about trying my first Lager....  (Read 694 times)

Offline Erik_Mog

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Thinking about trying my first Lager....
« on: July 20, 2016, 03:29:52 PM »
Hello again.  I am going to try to brew again on Sunday, and plan to either do another batch of the blood Orange Hefeweizen, or try my hand at doing a Lager for the first time.  I am thinking about a Czech Pale Lager, and this is what I have come up with.  As always, I would love any advice you can give me on this recipe.  I am really unsure about the mash temp for this style.  Would I mash at 148F for light body, or 152F for a medium body.  Sadly, most of my experience in drinking Lagers has been with the BMC type beers, which was a major factor in the reason I pretty much only drink Ales (IPA, APA, Hefe, and the rare Stout or Porter).  Thanks again for your help.

Czech Pale Lager (Name Pending)
Czech Pale Lager
Type: All Grain
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %

 
6 lbs Pilsner, Floor Malted (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM)
12.0 oz Munich 20L (Briess) (20.0 SRM)
12.0 oz Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)
4.0 oz Carapils (Briess) (1.3 SRM)
1.50 oz Saaz [3.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min 21.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Saaz [3.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min 2.6 IBUs
1.0 pkg Czech Pilsner Lager (Wyeast Labs #2278) [124.21 ml] 1.5L Starter
 
Est Original Gravity: 1.039
Est Final Gravity: 1.010
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 3.8 %
Est Color: 4.8 SRM

Mash at 152F for 60 min.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 03:51:38 PM by Erik_Mog »
Bottled/Drinking:  Born Again Heathenweizen, Mongrel Belgian
Fermenting:  None
Future:  Undecided...too many to choose from

Doggie Mutt Brewing Co.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Thinking about trying my first Lager....
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2016, 04:35:05 PM »
I like the idea of the floor malted pils but you don't need any of that other malt. You will find recipes with other grains in them but I think they are unnecessary.

IBUs should be around 35-40.

Needs a lot more hops in the late boil. Should look closer to around an ounce at fifteen or twenty minutes and another ounce at flameout.

Czech pils also needs a soft water. Look at RO water with a small calcium addition if water chemistry is not something you are familiar with.
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Offline Erik_Mog

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Re: Thinking about trying my first Lager....
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2016, 04:58:43 PM »
I like the idea of the floor malted pils but you don't need any of that other malt. You will find recipes with other grains in them but I think they are unnecessary.

IBUs should be around 35-40.

Needs a lot more hops in the late boil. Should look closer to around an ounce at fifteen or twenty minutes and another ounce at flameout.

Czech pils also needs a soft water. Look at RO water with a small calcium addition if water chemistry is not something you are familiar with.

Thanks.  Someone on another forum also suggested dropping the Munich and Vienna.  For the hops, what about 1.5oz@10 min, and 1oz@5 min.  That gives 33 IBU.

My well water is very low in mineral, and with very minor additions, I can get VERY close to the Pilsen water profile in Bru'n Water.  Water adjustment is as follows:

Ca: 8.3
Mg: 2
SO4:  7.4
Cl:  6.4
Na:  9
Lactic Acid 88%:  3ml added to mash water
Estimated Mash pH (room temp):  5.32

My water report from Ward Labs is posted here https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=27153.msg354066#msg354066
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 05:02:50 PM by Erik_Mog »
Bottled/Drinking:  Born Again Heathenweizen, Mongrel Belgian
Fermenting:  None
Future:  Undecided...too many to choose from

Doggie Mutt Brewing Co.
"Beer....Because people suck."

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Thinking about trying my first Lager....
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2016, 05:11:04 PM »
I like the idea of the floor malted pils but you don't need any of that other malt. You will find recipes with other grains in them but I think they are unnecessary.

IBUs should be around 35-40.

Needs a lot more hops in the late boil. Should look closer to around an ounce at fifteen or twenty minutes and another ounce at flameout.

Czech pils also needs a soft water. Look at RO water with a small calcium addition if water chemistry is not something you are familiar with.


Good advice.
Jon H.

Offline dls5492

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Re: Thinking about trying my first Lager....
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2016, 06:02:49 PM »
I like the idea of the floor malted pils but you don't need any of that other malt. You will find recipes with other grains in them but I think they are unnecessary.

IBUs should be around 35-40.

Needs a lot more hops in the late boil. Should look closer to around an ounce at fifteen or twenty minutes and another ounce at flameout.

Czech pils also needs a soft water. Look at RO water with a small calcium addition if water chemistry is not something you are familiar with.


Good advice.
+1. I think lagers are amazing beers and an under appreciated style. When done right, they are very satisfying. I think you made an excellent choice with your first lager. God speed on this new adventure!
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Thinking about trying my first Lager....
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2016, 08:30:40 PM »
I think the real question here is are you able to ferment the beer at proper lager temps (48-52F)?

Offline Erik_Mog

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Re: Thinking about trying my first Lager....
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2016, 02:37:38 AM »
I think the real question here is are you able to ferment the beer at proper lager temps (48-52F)?

I have a chest freezer with an InkBird ITC-308 hooked up to it, so temp control is not an issue.  It is going to tie up the freezer for a while though, which is ok.  I am getting 5 gal of free wort from the LHBS on Saturday, and will be throwing a pack of T-58 at it and letting it go to see what happens.  Also have 5 gal of APA that should be ready this weekend, and bottling 5 gal of IPA on Sunday as well.

Next question is on the lagering.  This will be going in bottles, since I don't keg, so after it is fermented, should I do a cold crash, fine with gelatin, and then bottle and let it carb up before sticking it back in the freezer to let it lager for a few weeks, or crash it down to around 32, and let it lager, then bottle?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 02:40:39 AM by Erik_Mog »
Bottled/Drinking:  Born Again Heathenweizen, Mongrel Belgian
Fermenting:  None
Future:  Undecided...too many to choose from

Doggie Mutt Brewing Co.
"Beer....Because people suck."

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Thinking about trying my first Lager....
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2016, 02:56:33 AM »
I like the idea of the floor malted pils but you don't need any of that other malt. You will find recipes with other grains in them but I think they are unnecessary.

IBUs should be around 35-40.

Needs a lot more hops in the late boil. Should look closer to around an ounce at fifteen or twenty minutes and another ounce at flameout.

Czech pils also needs a soft water. Look at RO water with a small calcium addition if water chemistry is not something you are familiar with.
His OG was to be 1.039. This would fit in 3a, and 35-40 IBUs are too high for 3a, but fit in for a 3b.

The SRM for both 3a and 3b max out at 6, he was at 4.8, so on a single infusion beer a little Munich and Vienna will add some Maillard products, and color.

It all depends on what he wants to target for his beer. I only have limited experience drinking beer in the Czeck Republic, but many are 10P beers, to be consumed in mass quantities.
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Offline dilluh98

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Re: Thinking about trying my first Lager....
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2016, 01:51:26 PM »
I think the real question here is are you able to ferment the beer at proper lager temps (48-52F)?

I have a chest freezer with an InkBird ITC-308 hooked up to it, so temp control is not an issue.  It is going to tie up the freezer for a while though, which is ok.  I am getting 5 gal of free wort from the LHBS on Saturday, and will be throwing a pack of T-58 at it and letting it go to see what happens.  Also have 5 gal of APA that should be ready this weekend, and bottling 5 gal of IPA on Sunday as well.

Next question is on the lagering.  This will be going in bottles, since I don't keg, so after it is fermented, should I do a cold crash, fine with gelatin, and then bottle and let it carb up before sticking it back in the freezer to let it lager for a few weeks, or crash it down to around 32, and let it lager, then bottle?

I'd crash, fine, bottle, carb up at RT then lager. If you lager first and then bottle the yeast might be a tad on the sluggish side (and fewer in number) to carb up unless you want to add some neutral yeast at bottling. Both methods would likely work but the latter might take quite a while to get to proper carbonation levels.

Offline Erik_Mog

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Re: Thinking about trying my first Lager....
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2016, 02:52:10 PM »
I think the real question here is are you able to ferment the beer at proper lager temps (48-52F)?

I have a chest freezer with an InkBird ITC-308 hooked up to it, so temp control is not an issue.  It is going to tie up the freezer for a while though, which is ok.  I am getting 5 gal of free wort from the LHBS on Saturday, and will be throwing a pack of T-58 at it and letting it go to see what happens.  Also have 5 gal of APA that should be ready this weekend, and bottling 5 gal of IPA on Sunday as well.

Next question is on the lagering.  This will be going in bottles, since I don't keg, so after it is fermented, should I do a cold crash, fine with gelatin, and then bottle and let it carb up before sticking it back in the freezer to let it lager for a few weeks, or crash it down to around 32, and let it lager, then bottle?

I'd crash, fine, bottle, carb up at RT then lager. If you lager first and then bottle the yeast might be a tad on the sluggish side (and fewer in number) to carb up unless you want to add some neutral yeast at bottling. Both methods would likely work but the latter might take quite a while to get to proper carbonation levels.

Thank you.  I bottle it and let it carb and then stick it back in the freezer for a few weeks.
Bottled/Drinking:  Born Again Heathenweizen, Mongrel Belgian
Fermenting:  None
Future:  Undecided...too many to choose from

Doggie Mutt Brewing Co.
"Beer....Because people suck."

Offline Erik_Mog

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Re: Thinking about trying my first Lager....
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2016, 05:19:48 PM »
Got the Lager brewed today. Just waiting for it to finish cooling down to pitch temp. OG was .002 higher , at 1.040, than predicted, but that's no problem. I mashed in at 152F and after 60 min it was 148F. 5.5 gal in to the fermenter. It was a beautiful pale yellow color and crystal clear. I hope is that clear when it is ready to drink. I will be pitching a 2.25L starter of WY2278 at soon as it is down to 54F. I did SWAG the water additions, other than the lactic acid. My well water tested somewhere between RO and Pilsen water, so I targeted the Pilsen profile in Bru'nWater. To hit that profile dead on, my gypsum, Calcium Chloride, and Epsom Salt additions would have been less than .2g for the mash and sparge water combined, so I just added a tiny pinch of each. The only major addition was 3ml of lactic acid to the mash water to get the pH around 5.3.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 05:44:36 PM by Erik_Mog »
Bottled/Drinking:  Born Again Heathenweizen, Mongrel Belgian
Fermenting:  None
Future:  Undecided...too many to choose from

Doggie Mutt Brewing Co.
"Beer....Because people suck."