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Author Topic: More pedestrian questions  (Read 3382 times)

Offline blair.streit

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Re: More pedestrian questions
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2016, 12:17:21 pm »
Randys book, Mastering Homebrew, talks about theses rests in detail. Why they are necessary, even with todays malts.  If only I could put my thumb on the page & paragraph...
From page 122 or so (using a Kindle so I can't tell exactly):

Quote
We want few of the large proteins that can cause haze and instability, a generous helping of mid-length proteins for body and head retention, plus fragments like amino acids that are critical for yeast nutrition.

Historic mashing processes were developed to create this perfect mix, but the malt was different then, and needed a protein rest in the mash. With modern malt, not only are protein rests usually unnecessary, but they can be harmful to beer, breaking up the mid-length proteins the maltster worked so hard to obtain.
He does go on to explain some of these things (including a lot of decoction examples that start at lower temps), but the warning is clear.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: More pedestrian questions
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2016, 12:33:46 pm »
Randys book, Mastering Homebrew, talks about theses rests in detail. Why they are necessary, even with todays malts.  If only I could put my thumb on the page & paragraph...
From page 122 or so (using a Kindle so I can't tell exactly):

Quote
We want few of the large proteins that can cause haze and instability, a generous helping of mid-length proteins for body and head retention, plus fragments like amino acids that are critical for yeast nutrition.

Historic mashing processes were developed to create this perfect mix, but the malt was different then, and needed a protein rest in the mash. With modern malt, not only are protein rests usually unnecessary, but they can be harmful to beer, breaking up the mid-length proteins the maltster worked so hard to obtain.
He does go on to explain some of these things (including a lot of decoction examples that start at lower temps), but the warning is clear.


Nice find. Nowadays I err on the side of no protein rest.
Jon H.

Online dmtaylor

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Re: More pedestrian questions
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2016, 12:47:56 pm »
Sweet reference.  I have the utmost respect for Mr. Mosher, he's one of the very few "celebrities" (besides Denny) who really seems to "get it".  I'll confess I have purchased Mastering Homebrew with the intent of reading it soon, as it looks like a phenomenal and super detailed book..... but I'm not as much a reader these days as I once was (damned worthless Facebook is such an evil and wasteful distraction!), so this book that I'm sure is excellent still sits on my huge pile of things I've yet to read.
Dave

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Online dmtaylor

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Re: More pedestrian questions
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2016, 12:53:25 pm »
When I saw that the Duvel recipe included pear extract, I gave up.
Yeah, just lame. If you ferment it right you get that from the yeast.   :)

FYI --- WLP400 witbier yeast throws a lot of pear ester.  I'll bet it would be wonderful in a Duvel clone.
Dave

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Offline denny

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Re: More pedestrian questions
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2016, 01:04:30 pm »
When I saw that the Duvel recipe included pear extract, I gave up.
Yeah, just lame. If you ferment it right you get that from the yeast.   :)

FYI --- WLP400 witbier yeast throws a lot of pear ester.  I'll bet it would be wonderful in a Duvel clone.

IMO too phenolic.  Duvel is vert clean other than the slightest bit of fruit.
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Offline Visor

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Re: More pedestrian questions
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2016, 06:35:50 pm »
   Clone Brews has a number of recipes which call for protein rests, I was thinking that Classic Styles also had some but after re-checking theirs are all single step infusion mashes, the rest of the books which include protein rests are early to mid 90's or older. There are a number of recipes on the AHA website which includes rests in the protein temperature range? The ones I found are all decoction mashes, but I would think a protein rest is a protein rest, regardless of mashing style.
   How long has it been since under modified malts were available on the homebrew market?

IMO, Clone Brews is about the worst homebrew book ever written.  It's been 12 years or more since you didn't have to go out of your way to find malts that required a protein rest.  As the commercial beer market got bigger and bigger, commercial brewers didn't want to mess with it, so the malts became more highly modified.

   Trust me, Clone brews isn't even close to the worst homebrewing book I've seen, I have a few [mostly very old] books that are quite bad. FWIW I just bottled a batch of the Anchor Steam clone yesterday, preliminary tasting wasn't half bad, we'll see soon what the result is.
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