Author Topic: 30m boil help  (Read 4082 times)

Offline zwiller

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30m boil help
« on: July 22, 2016, 04:53:42 PM »
Working toward the mythical 2 hour AG session and in the spirit of LODO brewing I plan to try a 30m boil on next brew.  Plan to plug recipe into Promash and reduce boil off rate 50% to get my liquid numbers and also change IBU/hop additions to 30m max.  That’s all I can think of.  Anything you guys can think of I am missing?   
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline blair.streit

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Re: 30m boil help
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2016, 05:50:04 PM »
I assume you will need to change water/acid treatments to account for a smaller initial volume of water.

Offline erockrph

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Re: 30m boil help
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2016, 06:30:47 PM »
Depending on the recipe, you may get a bit more hop flavor if you're moving a 60-minute addition up to 30 minutes. I don't know if there's much you can do about it, but it's something to be aware of.
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Offline zwiller

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Re: 30m boil help
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2016, 06:48:02 PM »
I assume you will need to change water/acid treatments to account for a smaller initial volume of water.

Touche'.  Yes, will need to get the Promash numbers into BNW.     

I think I might just adjust the sparge.  In other words, keep mash same but short the sparge by the boil off difference.
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: 30m boil help
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2016, 06:53:13 PM »
Depending on the recipe, you may get a bit more hop flavor if you're moving a 60-minute addition up to 30 minutes. I don't know if there's much you can do about it, but it's something to be aware of.


Yep, good call.
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Offline blair.streit

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Re: 30m boil help
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2016, 07:00:08 PM »
I think I might just adjust the sparge.  In other words, keep mash same but short the sparge by the boil off difference.
Yeah if you have the room I've found that I tend to like working with thinner mashes, especially for my lagers. The only downside I've run into is that they're a little more apt to lose temperature than a thick mash, but I found the difference to be minimal.

Offline zwiller

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Re: 30m boil help
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2016, 07:32:06 PM »
Depending on the recipe, you may get a bit more hop flavor if you're moving a 60-minute addition up to 30 minutes. I don't know if there's much you can do about it, but it's something to be aware of.

Another good point.  I think sticking to the neutral types should mitigate or use hop extract for early additions where you don't want any flavor but in some ways I consider this an advantage!
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline erockrph

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Re: 30m boil help
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2016, 07:57:58 PM »
Depending on the recipe, you may get a bit more hop flavor if you're moving a 60-minute addition up to 30 minutes. I don't know if there's much you can do about it, but it's something to be aware of.

Another good point.  I think sticking to the neutral types should mitigate or use hop extract for early additions where you don't want any flavor but in some ways I consider this an advantage!

Agreed - for hoppy styles this is definitely a plus. For an American Light Lager it might not be.
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Offline santoch

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Re: 30m boil help
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2016, 03:02:59 AM »
I'd be interested to see if the old-school DMS/light colored malt/short boil relationship holds up or is BS.  I guess you need to try brewing a German Pils with that 30 minute boil and see how that goes?
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Offline Stevie

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Re: 30m boil help
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2016, 03:22:02 AM »

Offline zwiller

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Re: 30m boil help
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2016, 08:21:50 AM »
I think there MIGHT be a chance for DMS on a short boil if you are using old school under modified malt.  BTW the last pils I did the majority of IBU was from a 30m hopstand/whirlpool (just like my IPA) and it rocked.  Right now, the hopstand/whirlpool is the time killer but I think it is worth it. 
Sam
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Offline erockrph

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Re: 30m boil help
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2016, 12:58:14 PM »
I think there MIGHT be a chance for DMS on a short boil if you are using old school under modified malt.  BTW the last pils I did the majority of IBU was from a 30m hopstand/whirlpool (just like my IPA) and it rocked.  Right now, the hopstand/whirlpool is the time killer but I think it is worth it.
I think it is more related to the kilning rather than the modification if the malt. Higher kilned malts will have more if the DMS precursors driven off and pose less risk of DMS formation in the boil.
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Offline beersk

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Re: 30m boil help
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2016, 04:31:26 PM »
I think there MIGHT be a chance for DMS on a short boil if you are using old school under modified malt.  BTW the last pils I did the majority of IBU was from a 30m hopstand/whirlpool (just like my IPA) and it rocked.  Right now, the hopstand/whirlpool is the time killer but I think it is worth it.
I think it is more related to the kilning rather than the modification if the malt. Higher kilned malts will have more if the DMS precursors driven off and pose less risk of DMS formation in the boil.
Good to know. I did a 45 minute boil on my low DO dunkel yesterday. It was a sub-4 hour brew session, which I'm pretty pleased with. Was a 3 gallon batch, so that helps.
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Offline zwiller

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Re: 30m boil help
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2016, 02:50:56 PM »
I think there MIGHT be a chance for DMS on a short boil if you are using old school under modified malt.  BTW the last pils I did the majority of IBU was from a 30m hopstand/whirlpool (just like my IPA) and it rocked.  Right now, the hopstand/whirlpool is the time killer but I think it is worth it.
I think it is more related to the kilning rather than the modification if the malt. Higher kilned malts will have more if the DMS precursors driven off and pose less risk of DMS formation in the boil.
Not saying you're wrong as I recall reading this myself, but per Noonan malt spec treatise: "DMS precursor (DMS-P): This value represents the levels of S-methyl methionine (SMM) and dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) in the malt. These compounds will convert to dimethyl sulfide (DMS) when the wort is heated. The DMS-P should be 5-15 ppm for lager malts, less for ales. The more fully modified the malt, the lower the DMS-P levels should be." 

I tend to think "floor malted/bohemian malt" is BOTH undermodified AND low temp kilned, so we're BOTH right.  ;D  I cannot locate DMS-P data for Weyermann malts but the other pils malts I researched are fine.  That said, most of my brews will be from domestic so 'tis a non-issue.  On a slight tangent but since many of you here are keeping up with the LODO stuff, my next pils (NGP) I plan to "re-kiln" the malt to see if I can coax some "it" into the beer.  Currently thinking 1-2 hours at 170F and let it cool prior to mashing.  Very curious if the malt aroma will perk up a bit.   
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline brewinhard

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Re: 30m boil help
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2016, 11:10:32 PM »
I think there MIGHT be a chance for DMS on a short boil if you are using old school under modified malt.  BTW the last pils I did the majority of IBU was from a 30m hopstand/whirlpool (just like my IPA) and it rocked.  Right now, the hopstand/whirlpool is the time killer but I think it is worth it.
I think it is more related to the kilning rather than the modification if the malt. Higher kilned malts will have more if the DMS precursors driven off and pose less risk of DMS formation in the boil.
Currently thinking 1-2 hours at 170F and let it cool prior to mashing.  Very curious if the malt aroma will perk up a bit.

I like the idea, but you may want to try a small sample re-kilned first just to make sure it doesn't darken the grain too much, especially for a light lager. 1-2 hrs seems like a long time to me.