Author Topic: Saison Kit + Homegrown Hops  (Read 908 times)

Offline CharlesCulp

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Saison Kit + Homegrown Hops
« on: July 30, 2016, 01:42:15 AM »
I purchased this kit: http://www.northernbrewer.com/dont-be-mean-saison-extract-kit
recipe PDF here: http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/DontBeMeanToPeople.pdf

I also have Cascade hops growing up the side of my house. Should I use those? How much, and when? Should I omit the final 1.5 oz of Sorachi Ace, and replace it with 10oz of fresh Cascade? Should I instead add the fresh Cascade during secondary fermentation?

Is this a crazy idea to begin with, using Cascade? I understand that it will be a stronger hop taste/aroma, with less of the fruity Sorachi characteristics. It's more of the

In general, I am a beginner. I have been homebrewing for about 10 years, but only made a dozen or so batches. I did try using fresh hops a couple times, and it has always come out way too weak.

Here are some photos of my hop plants, just as reference (two plants). Last time this was about the right amount for a single 5 gallon batch, but I have a bit bigger plants this time.

https://goo.gl/photos/jb6Ygm5JCpB5kMQw5

Thanks for the beginner's help!

Offline brew_in_stl

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Saison Kit + Homegrown Hops
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2016, 01:55:08 AM »
Fresh hops don't have the same properties as dried. I would recommend, if you REALLY want to use your home grown Cascade hops, add them as a dry hop to part of your batch, so you can see the flavor difference.

Otherwise, I'd take the opportunity to research the difference between fresh and dried hops.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Joshua Eberhardt
Hombrewer since 2006
Member - Saint Louis Brews

Offline Steve Ruch

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1040
    • View Profile
Re: Saison Kit + Homegrown Hops
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2016, 04:00:13 PM »
Saison is a fairly wide open category, so use whatever hops you want.
You need to use a lot more fresh hops compared to dried to get the same level of hoppiness.
Crescent City, CA

I love to go swimmin'
with hairy old women

Offline Philbrew

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
    • View Profile
Re: Saison Kit + Homegrown Hops
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2016, 02:33:53 AM »
Home grown Cascade hops (dried) are great in a saison.  I brewed a 5.5 gallon saison with a Cascade-Hallertau hop mix three months ago and I'm already down to the last 12 10 bottles.  :(   Gotta do that one again soon!
« Last Edit: August 01, 2016, 02:36:03 AM by Philbrew »
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline reverseapachemaster

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3208
    • View Profile
    • Brain Sparging on Brewing
Re: Saison Kit + Homegrown Hops
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2016, 03:55:24 PM »
I use cascades a fair amount in my saisons. I really like a blend of American and European hops in the style. For a hoppy saison I target hopping rates similar to an American pale ale. For a more straightforward rendition there needs to be a lot more restraint, especially when using new world hops.

If it were me I would keep the recipe as it is but add a little cascade to the whirlpool. I'd go 0.5-1 oz cascade in the whirlpool. Not enough to overwhelm the sorachi ace but enough to bump up the citrus flavor. If you want to use fresh, undried hops instead of drying your hops first you need to use five times as much to get the same volume of flavor (so 2.5-5 oz).
Heck yeah I blog about homebrewing: Brain Sparging on Brewing

Offline Philbrew

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
    • View Profile
Re: Saison Kit + Homegrown Hops
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2016, 09:22:29 PM »
If you want to use fresh, undried hops instead of drying your hops first you need to use five times as much to get the same volume of flavor (so 2.5-5 oz).
Is that because we add hops by weight and fresh hops have a lot of water weight in them?  Or is there something going on in the drying process that intensifies the flavor/bitterness/aroma?
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19938
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Saison Kit + Homegrown Hops
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2016, 09:56:01 PM »
If you want to use fresh, undried hops instead of drying your hops first you need to use five times as much to get the same volume of flavor (so 2.5-5 oz).
Is that because we add hops by weight and fresh hops have a lot of water weight in them?  Or is there something going on in the drying process that intensifies the flavor/bitterness/aroma?

Kinda both..what intensifies them is that they lose water.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline CharlesCulp

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: Saison Kit + Homegrown Hops
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2016, 01:54:31 AM »
Just wanted to follow back and say thanks for the advice. After doing a bit  more research, I decided to brew the kit as it came. Tasted good so far going into secondary.

I am going to wait another week(s) to harvest my hops. Based on what I've read it will taste way to grassy if I harvest this early. I'm just paranoid because the last two years I waited too long and they went bad on the vine.

Anyway, I will dry, and since I have a vacuum sealer, seal and freeze. I will brew something a bit more appropriate for cascade and use them to dry hop.

Cheers!

Offline chinaski

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
    • View Profile
Re: Saison Kit + Homegrown Hops
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2016, 08:19:44 PM »
Good call.  I've used my own cascades both wet and dry and overwhelmingly prefer them dry, and stored the way you spell out.  Easier to know how & when to use them when you have a dry weight to work with.