Author Topic: Don't use Crystal 60??? Something I heard on Brew Strong?  (Read 5342 times)

Offline Steve L

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Don't use Crystal 60??? Something I heard on Brew Strong?
« on: August 05, 2016, 04:57:56 PM »
I was listening to a Brew Strong pod cast... unfortunately I cannot remember the context within which they were discussing this, but the gist of it was that brewers should try to avoid using Crystal 60... for some reason. I can't remember if it was premature staling or something along those lines... Wondering if this is just bunk.  Can anyone expound upon this?  ;D

Thanks,
Steve
« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 05:00:19 PM by Brewtweak »
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Offline Stevie

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Re: Don't use Crystal 60??? Something I heard on Brew Strong?
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2016, 05:07:52 PM »
Which episode?

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Don't use Crystal 60??? Something I heard on Brew Strong?
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2016, 05:18:41 PM »
Didn't hear the Brew Strong episode. But Mitch Steele says in his blog that in beers using using high % of crystal malts:  "oxidized crystal malt characters will also mask and hasten the loss of hop flavor, which is why many of the best IPA brewers use very little to no crystal malts in their IPAs."   I trust his knowledge.

http://hoptripper.com/the-real-quality-issue-oxidation/
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Offline denny

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Re: Don't use Crystal 60??? Something I heard on Brew Strong?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2016, 05:27:50 PM »
Total BS IMO.  Use whatever you like, but use it wisely.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline dilluh98

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Re: Don't use Crystal 60??? Something I heard on Brew Strong?
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2016, 05:35:01 PM »
Didn't hear the Brew Strong episode. But Mitch Steele says in his blog that in beers using using high % of crystal malts:  "oxidized crystal malt characters will also mask and hasten the loss of hop flavor, which is why many of the best IPA brewers use very little to no crystal malts in their IPAs."   I trust his knowledge.

http://hoptripper.com/the-real-quality-issue-oxidation/

I thought using high percentages of crystal in IPA was out of fashion now anyway...

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Don't use Crystal 60??? Something I heard on Brew Strong?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2016, 05:39:28 PM »
Didn't hear the Brew Strong episode. But Mitch Steele says in his blog that in beers using using high % of crystal malts:  "oxidized crystal malt characters will also mask and hasten the loss of hop flavor, which is why many of the best IPA brewers use very little to no crystal malts in their IPAs."   I trust his knowledge.

http://hoptripper.com/the-real-quality-issue-oxidation/

I thought using high percentages of crystal in IPA was out of fashion now anyway...


It mostly is from a flavor standpoint, but I believe the reference now is more about its possible tendency for oxidation. Not having heard this podcast, I can't say that for sure, but I've heard and seen references about the oxidation. Are they absolutely accurate? Can't say. I limit crystal in most beers from a taste preference.
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Offline Steve L

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Re: Don't use Crystal 60??? Something I heard on Brew Strong?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2016, 05:49:21 PM »
It really did seem out of left field. I'll see if I can track down the pod cast, but I do like my C60, when taken moderation. ;)

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Offline denny

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Re: Don't use Crystal 60??? Something I heard on Brew Strong?
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2016, 06:07:30 PM »
There are so many reports to the contrary...here are a few....

https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/520-crystal-malt-homebrew-science..."Although crystal malt contains reductones — a class of caramel-type products that are capable of absorbing oxygen in their reduced state  — and are thought to act as anti-oxidants, extending the flavor stability of beers, research has failed to show a direct correlation. It may be that beers containing crystal malts contain flavors that mask the effects of oxidation. "

http://www.geterbrewed.com/bairds-crystal-light-malt/..."In all beers they can help prevent the formation of oxidation flavours"

Although I don't consider any of the references definitive, it certainly shows there is a difference of opinion.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline Stevie

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Re: Don't use Crystal 60??? Something I heard on Brew Strong?
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2016, 06:13:03 PM »
Commenting is pointless without knowing the context. It could have been as simple as don't sub c60 for c20.

Offline Steve L

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Re: Don't use Crystal 60??? Something I heard on Brew Strong?
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2016, 06:49:36 PM »
OK, I managed to track it down. It's in the Podcast on Thermal load, @ about 40:30.
They mention that C60 is more susceptible to staling than any other crystal malts higher or lower. I'd never heard this. Thought it sounded a little suspect but I'm certainly not a malt expert.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Don't use Crystal 60??? Something I heard on Brew Strong?
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2016, 06:53:06 PM »
I wonder if they simply mean that the malt flavors themselves that come from C60 are more subject to being percieved as oxidized as the beer ages. I use a pretty big punch of English C60 in my old ale and I actually like the flavor of that malt as the beer ages a bit.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Don't use Crystal 60??? Something I heard on Brew Strong?
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2016, 06:53:34 PM »
Total BS IMO.  Use whatever you like, but use it wisely.

+1.  Brewers just love to make stuff up, we do it all the time.  It makes life more interesting.  I'm serious too I think.

I wonder if they simply mean that the malt flavors themselves that come from C60 are more subject to being percieved as oxidized as the beer ages. I use a pretty big punch of English C60 in my old ale and I actually like the flavor of that malt as the beer ages a bit.

Now this might actually make a little bit of sense.  Maybe can be *mistaken* for oxidation even though it's really not any more or less oxidized than anything else.  That I can maybe see, maybe.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 06:55:17 PM by dmtaylor »
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Don't use Crystal 60??? Something I heard on Brew Strong?
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2016, 07:50:51 PM »
Commenting is pointless without knowing the context.

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Offline tommymorris

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Re: Don't use Crystal 60??? Something I heard on Brew Strong?
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2016, 09:40:37 PM »
Commenting is pointless without knowing the context. It could have been as simple as don't sub c60 for c20.
+1

I recommend avoiding C60 in a Pilsner. I recommend C60 in a bitter.

Offline Stevie

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Re: Don't use Crystal 60??? Something I heard on Brew Strong?
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2016, 09:51:39 PM »
Listening to it makes it seem like it is mostly a character issue. They also say they like the flavor contributions of a C40 and C80 blend compared to just C60.