Are We All Overpitching All Dry Yeasts?!

[Pricelessbrewing]

Math works out for a typical WL vial.

Minimum viable 180B per satchet, average WL vial for most strains* is about 80-90B. 180/80=2.25.

*Flocculation seems to be the biggest variable for this. Low flocc strains have an average of ~65-75B, and can be as low as 30B according to the QC reports I pulled from yeastman last winter.

[denny]

Validation!  I heard Jamil say on the following podcast at about the 59-minute mark that the standard 11-gram dry yeast packets contain about 225% as much yeast as a standard vial of liquid yeast.  Whammo!  I mean, he would know, right?  He wrote the book on Yeast?!

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/membersarchive/bws_2016_07_05_diacetyldryyeastQs.mp3

Weren't you aware of that already?  And I assume he didn't specify age of liquid yeast and was assuming 100% viability for it?

[dmtaylor]

Awesome -- thanks Priceless.

I think I'll be pitching less dry yeast from here on out.  Rehydration....... bah!  I guess I could, if I really wanted to save some money.  However it's already not so easy estimating the difference between 1/12 to 1/6 of a packet of yeast for my little 1.7-gallon batches anyway!   

[denny]

Awesome -- thanks Priceless.

I think I'll be pitching less dry yeast from here on out.  Rehydration....... bah!  I guess I could, if I really wanted to save some money.  However it's already not so easy estimating the difference between 1/12 to 1/6 of a packet of yeast for my little 1.7-gallon batches anyway!   

Just be careful with that open pack.  I tried that twice and ended up with infections.  No way to know for certain, but I think it was from the open yeast pack. Haven't tried since.

[dmtaylor]

Weren't you aware of that already?  And I assume he didn't specify age of liquid yeast and was assuming 100% viability for it?

No, I wasn't aware.  Jamil also didn't state his assumptions, so we can only assume what he assumed.  In context I think it was pretty clear what he was saying -- there's generally a lot more viable yeast in a dry pack.  Not to mention, the dry packs remain mostly viable for YEARS in the fridge instead of just 8-10 months.

[denny]

Weren't you aware of that already?  And I assume he didn't specify age of liquid yeast and was assuming 100% viability for it?

No, I wasn't aware.  Jamil also didn't state his assumptions, so we can only assume what he assumed.  In context I think it was pretty clear what he was saying -- there's generally a lot more viable yeast in a dry pack.  Not to mention, the dry packs remain mostly viable for YEARS in the fridge instead of just 8-10 months.

I've been saying that for years!  It's why I don't bother to rehydrate.

[zwiller]

Awesome -- thanks Priceless.

I think I'll be pitching less dry yeast from here on out.  Rehydration....... bah!  I guess I could, if I really wanted to save some money.  However it's already not so easy estimating the difference between 1/12 to 1/6 of a packet of yeast for my little 1.7-gallon batches anyway!   

Just be careful with that open pack.  I tried that twice and ended up with infections.  No way to know for certain, but I think it was from the open yeast pack. Haven't tried since.

On ebay there are all sorts of small 5-25ml sterile containers that are CHEAP so you could portion a packet.  Tare out the container on a scale and divide away!  That said, I've read numerous stories that homebrewers that got bricks of dried yeast and used them over time without issues.  I wonder that since the yeast is dried, is it less susceptible to infection? 

[Philbrew]

Weren't you aware of that already?  And I assume he didn't specify age of liquid yeast and was assuming 100% viability for it?

No, I wasn't aware.  Jamil also didn't state his assumptions, so we can only assume what he assumed.  In context I think it was pretty clear what he was saying -- there's generally a lot more viable yeast in a dry pack.  Not to mention, the dry packs remain mostly viable for YEARS in the fridge instead of just 8-10 months.

I've been saying that for years!  It's why I don't bother to rehydrate.

What about a lager...say, a 6 gal. batch of German pils with one packette of W34/70?  Would you (should I):
- sprinkle on top?
- rehydrate and cool to 50*-54*?
- make a SNS starter and cool to 50*-54*?

[HoosierBrew]

What about a lager...say, a 6 gal. batch of German pils with one packette of W34/70?  Would you (should I):
- sprinkle on top?
- rehydrate and cool to 50*-54*?
- make a SNS starter and cool to 50*-54*?

I don't use 34/70 often, but when I do it's 2 packets sprinkled (standard strength beers).

[denny]

What about a lager...say, a 6 gal. batch of German pils with one packette of W34/70?  Would you (should I):
- sprinkle on top?
- rehydrate and cool to 50*-54*?
- make a SNS starter and cool to 50*-54*?

If I'm using dry yeast, it's sprinkle on top.  If I'm using liquid, I've done 1 qt. SNS starters and pitched in the low-mid 50s.  One of these days I want to compare a 1 qt. SNS to a 2 qt. SNS.

[dmtaylor]

What about a lager...say, a 6 gal. batch of German pils with one packette of W34/70?  Would you (should I):
- sprinkle on top?
- rehydrate and cool to 50*-54*?
- make a SNS starter and cool to 50*-54*?

For that I might actually rehydrate or at least activate the yeast to make sure it's lively.  But if it were only 3 or 4 gallons, I'd probably just sprinkle on top and call it good.

[zwiller]

What about a lager...say, a 6 gal. batch of German pils with one packette of W34/70?  Would you (should I):
- sprinkle on top?
- rehydrate and cool to 50*-54*?
- make a SNS starter and cool to 50*-54*?

I don't use 34/70 often, but when I do it's 2 packets sprinkled (standard strength beers).

That's what I used to do but I would be interested how 1 packet rehydrated would do (and bet it does fine).  That said, I did one single packet @ 60F in a NGP and don't think I will ever go back to cooler ferments.  I am BJCP and brutal about my own stuff.   

[HoosierBrew]

What about a lager...say, a 6 gal. batch of German pils with one packette of W34/70?  Would you (should I):
- sprinkle on top?
- rehydrate and cool to 50*-54*?
- make a SNS starter and cool to 50*-54*?

I don't use 34/70 often, but when I do it's 2 packets sprinkled (standard strength beers).

That's what I used to do but I would be interested how 1 packet rehydrated would do (and bet it does fine).  That said, I did one single packet @ 60F in a NGP and don't think I will ever go back to cooler ferments.  I am BJCP and brutal about my own stuff.   

Yeah, that stuff (830/2124/34-70) is super clean. Pretty hard to screw up.

[dmtaylor]

I am BJCP and brutal about my own stuff.

Oh boy, I hear ya, man.  I beat myself up pretty bad about approximately 50% of the beers I make, "dang it, I should have done this or that, what was I thinking".  Then the other 50% of the time I'm elated just because it turned out halfway decent. 

[el_capitan]

It's definitely worth some experimentation. Who knows, maybe Belle Saison (for example) gets more interesting on half a pack ?

I picked up a couple AG saison kits from NB, and I read that they recommend pitching TWO packs of dry yeast in the 5 gallon batch.  I kind of thought that was overkill.  I'm going to brew tomorrow - do you think I can get away with just the single pack?