Author Topic: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast  (Read 15114 times)

Offline f00b4r

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2016, 07:28:07 PM »
Some users in the UK who use WLP002 as their house yeast have been testing this out already and from its behaviour it seems to be a different strain. Fermentations are underway so I guess more info will be forthcoming soon.

Offline jahlinux

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2016, 08:57:43 PM »
Any reports on how this yeast compares to WLP-002?

Offline Hand of Dom

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2016, 04:32:53 PM »
Some users in the UK who use WLP002 as their house yeast have been testing this out already and from its behaviour it seems to be a different strain. Fermentations are underway so I guess more info will be forthcoming soon.

JBK?
Dom

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Currently fermenting - Pale ale 1 - 2017

Offline f00b4r

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2016, 04:34:54 PM »
Some users in the UK who use WLP002 as their house yeast have been testing this out already and from its behaviour it seems to be a different strain. Fermentations are underway so I guess more info will be forthcoming soon.

JBK?

Yes JKB and also "The Brewing Forum".
Looks like it is a rereleased strain but definitely not 002.

Offline stpug

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2016, 08:02:52 PM »
My experience with this strain has been good, overall:
-Present but not-overpowering ester production that are in-line with 1968 but more reserved
-Super-fast fermenter
-Malt character is preserved
-Hop character still shines through
-Great tasting finished beer
-British dry yeast!
-Much more likeable than S-04

Some (subjective) cons:
-Low attenuator (62-70% is typical)
-Not a great floccer
-Kind of powdery and slow to sediment
-SUPER-fast fermenter (36 hours and done)
-Manage fermentations closely and increase to 72F around hour 32-36F to help attenuation.

Overall, I like this strain a lot.  Great British-like ales are produced and fermentation takes place quickly.  Allow for extra time in keg for clearing.  Primary conversion mash should be <150F for any kind of reasonable attenuation; keep unfermentables to a minimum.  A stepped mash should help with attenuation.  Does not ferment maltotriose at all, IIRC.  Most "British" dry yeast are either way too clean (nottingham, MJ british ale yeast) or just not overly appealing (S-04), with the exception of MJ Burton Union which is highly unique and suitable for the right ale.  This strain hits the mark in most regards; just need to mash very low (145-147F is ideal) and manage your fermentation very well (ramp up to 72 by hour 36 of active fermenatation).

Offline Philbrew

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2016, 08:05:43 PM »
I tried this yeast for the first time on Tuesday (pitched about 3:00 PM).  In a 1.045 Best Bitters.  And, Holy Cow, I've never seen a yeast that active.  On Wed. morning there was a light foam but by Wed. afternoon there was huge krausen that looked like baked meringue and the wort looked like there was a small outboard motor in there.  Stuff was was going up and down at velocities that I've never seen before.  The room temp. has been a steady 58-60* and the beer at 60-62*.  I did see a 64* at one point.  This morning (Fri.) the krausen had fallen and airlock bubbling very slowly.  It basically chewed through this beer in two days!

Edit:  SUPER-fast fermenter indeed!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 08:07:40 PM by Philbrew »
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2016, 02:45:30 PM »
That's why I miss fermenting in glass. I used to enjoy watching the show. Now, in stainless it all happens without me.


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Offline Hand of Dom

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2016, 10:32:58 AM »
I tried this yeast for the first time on Tuesday (pitched about 3:00 PM).  In a 1.045 Best Bitters.  And, Holy Cow, I've never seen a yeast that active.  On Wed. morning there was a light foam but by Wed. afternoon there was huge krausen that looked like baked meringue and the wort looked like there was a small outboard motor in there.  Stuff was was going up and down at velocities that I've never seen before.  The room temp. has been a steady 58-60* and the beer at 60-62*.  I did see a 64* at one point.  This morning (Fri.) the krausen had fallen and airlock bubbling very slowly.  It basically chewed through this beer in two days!

Edit:  SUPER-fast fermenter indeed!

What attenuation did you get?  I've seen reports that this yeast only gets to around 55%, and struggles to clear, it would be good to see more data points.
Dom

Currently drinking - Amarillo saison
Currently fermenting - Pale ale 1 - 2017

Offline Philbrew

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2016, 03:38:15 PM »
I tried this yeast for the first time on Tuesday (pitched about 3:00 PM).  In a 1.045 Best Bitters.  And, Holy Cow, I've never seen a yeast that active.  On Wed. morning there was a light foam but by Wed. afternoon there was huge krausen that looked like baked meringue and the wort looked like there was a small outboard motor in there.  Stuff was was going up and down at velocities that I've never seen before.  The room temp. has been a steady 58-60* and the beer at 60-62*.  I did see a 64* at one point.  This morning (Fri.) the krausen had fallen and airlock bubbling very slowly.  It basically chewed through this beer in two days!

Edit:  SUPER-fast fermenter indeed!

What attenuation did you get?  I've seen reports that this yeast only gets to around 55%, and struggles to clear, it would be good to see more data points.
I ramped up the temp as stpug suggested and it was still going yesterday, albeit verrry slowly.  I'll take a gravity reading this afternoon and report.
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline Philbrew

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2016, 08:13:52 PM »
I tried this yeast for the first time on Tuesday (pitched about 3:00 PM).  In a 1.045 Best Bitters.  And, Holy Cow, I've never seen a yeast that active.  On Wed. morning there was a light foam but by Wed. afternoon there was huge krausen that looked like baked meringue and the wort looked like there was a small outboard motor in there.  Stuff was was going up and down at velocities that I've never seen before.  The room temp. has been a steady 58-60* and the beer at 60-62*.  I did see a 64* at one point.  This morning (Fri.) the krausen had fallen and airlock bubbling very slowly.  It basically chewed through this beer in two days!

Edit:  SUPER-fast fermenter indeed!

What attenuation did you get?  I've seen reports that this yeast only gets to around 55%, and struggles to clear, it would be good to see more data points.
I ramped up the temp as stpug suggested and it was still going yesterday, albeit verrry slowly.  I'll take a gravity reading this afternoon and report.
FG reading came in at 1.016, a couple points higher than I'm used to but not bad.  I'll let it go a couple more days and take another sample.

The sample tasted quite good.  Dryish and not sweet at all with lots of flavor (grain and hops).
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2016, 01:22:09 PM »
I see a similar discussion on the Probrewer forum. A participant received a reply from Lallemand that confirms that this yeast does not ferment maltotriose and the recommendation is to always employ a relatively low temp mash of no greater than 152F. Lallemand called it a benefit because the brewer does not have to use a high temp mash to leave the wort less fermentable.
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Offline stpug

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2016, 04:10:22 PM »
I tried this yeast for the first time on Tuesday (pitched about 3:00 PM).  In a 1.045 Best Bitters.  And, Holy Cow, I've never seen a yeast that active.  On Wed. morning there was a light foam but by Wed. afternoon there was huge krausen that looked like baked meringue and the wort looked like there was a small outboard motor in there.  Stuff was was going up and down at velocities that I've never seen before.  The room temp. has been a steady 58-60* and the beer at 60-62*.  I did see a 64* at one point.  This morning (Fri.) the krausen had fallen and airlock bubbling very slowly.  It basically chewed through this beer in two days!

Edit:  SUPER-fast fermenter indeed!

What attenuation did you get?  I've seen reports that this yeast only gets to around 55%, and struggles to clear, it would be good to see more data points.

Some data points:
  • Best Bitter: 95% base, 3% crystal, 2% toast; 149F mash 60min, 168F mashout 10min; ferment 72F; 72% AA
  • American Brown: 84% base, 11% crystal, 5% roast/toast; 149F mash 60min, 168F mashout 10min; ferment 64F for 36hrs, 72F for remainder; 65% AA
  • Oatmeal Stout: 79% base, 11% crystal, 10% roast; 147F mash 60min, 158F mash 15min, 168 mashout 10min; ferment 70-72F; 64% AA
While those AA number may seem on the low side for typical brews (I usually see 75-82% AA with most strains), the beers taste fully fermented with wonderful balance and full flavor.  The malt character that remains in these beers is huge (by comparison) and none taste too sweet or under-attenuated.  One key aspect to this yeast strain that I have not seen mentioned is it's glycerol production qualities: this strain must have a significant glycerol production level because all of these beers came out with med-full to full body (mouthfeel), even the 4.5% best bitter. Overall, I'm very impressed with this strain.  It's largest fault seems to be that it's a bit powdery, and as long as you're aware of how it attenuates (and compensate for it during the mash) then you won't run into any surprises.  I haven't tried fining any of these beers to see how well the yeast reacts to the fining agents - at this point I'm more interested in the pros/cons of the strain.  If there are enough pros then I may look into fining future batches, but I'll wait to see how long the kegs take to clear naturally at cold temps for this go-round.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 04:16:08 PM by stpug »

Offline Philbrew

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2016, 07:58:46 PM »
I tried this yeast for the first time on Tuesday (pitched about 3:00 PM).  In a 1.045 Best Bitters.  And, Holy Cow, I've never seen a yeast that active.  On Wed. morning there was a light foam but by Wed. afternoon there was huge krausen that looked like baked meringue and the wort looked like there was a small outboard motor in there.  Stuff was was going up and down at velocities that I've never seen before.  The room temp. has been a steady 58-60* and the beer at 60-62*.  I did see a 64* at one point.  This morning (Fri.) the krausen had fallen and airlock bubbling very slowly.  It basically chewed through this beer in two days!

Edit:  SUPER-fast fermenter indeed!

What attenuation did you get?  I've seen reports that this yeast only gets to around 55%, and struggles to clear, it would be good to see more data points.
I ramped up the temp as stpug suggested and it was still going yesterday, albeit verrry slowly.  I'll take a gravity reading this afternoon and report.
FG reading came in at 1.016, a couple points higher than I'm used to but not bad.  I'll let it go a couple more days and take another sample.

The sample tasted quite good.  Dryish and not sweet at all with lots of flavor (grain and hops).
After 2 more days at 69-71* the FG still reads 1.016.  So, starting at 1.045, what is the AA?

Also, I'd like to cold crash and gelatin fine in the fermenter and then I intend to bottle carb the batch with corn sugar.  Is this yeast going to get up for that?
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline stpug

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2016, 09:29:36 PM »
I tried this yeast for the first time on Tuesday (pitched about 3:00 PM).  In a 1.045 Best Bitters.  And, Holy Cow, I've never seen a yeast that active.  On Wed. morning there was a light foam but by Wed. afternoon there was huge krausen that looked like baked meringue and the wort looked like there was a small outboard motor in there.  Stuff was was going up and down at velocities that I've never seen before.  The room temp. has been a steady 58-60* and the beer at 60-62*.  I did see a 64* at one point.  This morning (Fri.) the krausen had fallen and airlock bubbling very slowly.  It basically chewed through this beer in two days!

Edit:  SUPER-fast fermenter indeed!

What attenuation did you get?  I've seen reports that this yeast only gets to around 55%, and struggles to clear, it would be good to see more data points.
I ramped up the temp as stpug suggested and it was still going yesterday, albeit verrry slowly.  I'll take a gravity reading this afternoon and report.
FG reading came in at 1.016, a couple points higher than I'm used to but not bad.  I'll let it go a couple more days and take another sample.

The sample tasted quite good.  Dryish and not sweet at all with lots of flavor (grain and hops).
After 2 more days at 69-71* the FG still reads 1.016.  So, starting at 1.045, what is the AA?

Also, I'd like to cold crash and gelatin fine in the fermenter and then I intend to bottle carb the batch with corn sugar.  Is this yeast going to get up for that?

1.045 - 1.016 = 29
29 / 45 = 64.4% AA

There should be no problem with enough yeast to bottle carbonate your batch.  You generally need to either rack many time over long periods to drop/kill remaining yeast, or sterile filter to leave so little that you cannot bottle carbonate. Generally speaking.

Offline Philbrew

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2016, 10:44:56 PM »

1.045 - 1.016 = 29
29 / 45 = 64.4% AA

There should be no problem with enough yeast to bottle carbonate your batch.  You generally need to either rack many time over long periods to drop/kill remaining yeast, or sterile filter to leave so little that you cannot bottle carbonate. Generally speaking.
Thanks. I guess 64% AA isn't to bad for this yeast.  I did mash too warm (154-152*).
I was concerned on bottle carb because of the ferment-like-crazy-then-drop-off-a-cliff nature of this yeast.
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.