Author Topic: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast  (Read 15117 times)

Offline stpug

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2016, 11:27:15 PM »

1.045 - 1.016 = 29
29 / 45 = 64.4% AA

There should be no problem with enough yeast to bottle carbonate your batch.  You generally need to either rack many time over long periods to drop/kill remaining yeast, or sterile filter to leave so little that you cannot bottle carbonate. Generally speaking.
Thanks. I guess 64% AA isn't to bad for this yeast.  I did mash too warm (154-152*).
I was concerned on bottle carb because of the ferment-like-crazy-then-drop-off-a-cliff nature of this yeast.

Good point, however I would guess that if using a super-simple sugar like dextrose or table sugar that the yeast would be able to easily utilize ~100% of it.  DME, on the other hand, would be more likely to result in possible undercarbonation to some degree.

Offline swampale

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2016, 11:17:48 AM »
What if I used some Amylase Enzyme to get it to attenuate further?

Offline bboy9000

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2016, 03:22:04 PM »
What if I used some Amylase Enzyme to get it to attenuate further?
If that's what you want I'd just use a different yeast.  Cheaper than adding Beano and easier than chewing your grain and spitting it into the mash tun or bag.
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Online tommymorris

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2016, 04:07:42 PM »
So, does beer fermented with London ESB yeast taste significantly different than beer fermented using Windsor yeast? Both yeasts do not ferment maltotriose and have consequently low apparent attenuations.

I assume they are different yeasts since they are sold by the same company.

Mark V. used to recommend Windsor and Nottingham together for a good bitter. I wonder if London ESB and Nottingham would go well together.

Offline stpug

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2016, 02:56:08 AM »
What if I used some Amylase Enzyme to get it to attenuate further?

Ideally, you don't need extra steps like that.  If the beer is not yet brewed, then simply adjust (use a different strain, mash for maximum attenuation, reduce the amount of unfermentables in the grist, include highly fermentable adjuncts/sugars, etc).  If the beer has already been brewed, how does it taste?  If it's "within reason" and drinkable then drink up - adjust next time.  If the beer has been brewed and is a total dumper, then you can try experimenting with AE and hope to turn a dumper into a drinker (but don't plan on a miracle, but you might get lucky).

Mark V. used to recommend Windsor and Nottingham together for a good bitter. I wonder if London ESB and Nottingham would go well together.

I've never used Windsor so cannot comment on similarities/differences.  London ESB is a great yeast choice for a bitter - it gives enough character without dominating.  It's not a huge amount of character to begin with, so I think blending with a clean-ish strain (i.e. nottingham) might result in even less character.  As long as you know the attenuation characteristics of the strain in question then you should be able to account for it during the brewing process to achieve the desired result in the finished product.  This strain would lend itself really well to many of those bitter recipes posted on Barclay Perkins that utilize large percentages of low-med color inverts, or even an adjunct like corn.

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2016, 01:45:49 PM »
This was pointed out on another forum: British beer recipes often employ some form of simple sugars. That factor along with this yeast's inability to ferment maltotriose is likely to produce a beer that has acceptable attenuation, body, and taste. Using this yeast with an all malt wort may not produce a good result.
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Offline stpug

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2016, 03:23:40 PM »
Using this yeast with an all malt wort may not produce a good result.

I have a series of 3 ales (best bitter, am. brown, oatmeal stout) on tap, all 100% malt, 65-72% attenuation, and this strain produces an excellent beer.  Biggest fault (in my opinion) is the powdery characteristic of this yeast, but despite this fact it's still a winner in my book.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2016, 04:35:24 PM »
Using this yeast with an all malt wort may not produce a good result.

I have a series of 3 ales (best bitter, am. brown, oatmeal stout) on tap, all 100% malt, 65-72% attenuation, and this strain produces an excellent beer.  Biggest fault (in my opinion) is the powdery characteristic of this yeast, but despite this fact it's still a winner in my book.
Sounds like a great candidate for session beers. I'm still waiting on keg space to free up so I can tap my session EIPA using this yeast, but I'm looking forward to sampling it soon.
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Online natebrews

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2016, 02:24:58 PM »
Hi all,

I used this yeast for the first time on my bitter and was wondering if anyone had similar results.  The recipe was pretty typical with some maris otter, crystal, a bit of flaked barley, and some victory.  I mashed at 152 using the low oxygen method for 45 minutes.  The OG was 1.040 and the FG is 1.009, which matched a fast ferment test I did.  Ferment started at 65 and was almost finished at 36hr, with an SG of 1.014. 

So the big thing that I'm put off by is the huge sulfur thing it has going on.  The fast ferment sample of it didn't have this (which fermented at 72), but the main batch has a lot of egg/fart that needs to blow off.  I took the samples and just left them out on the counter for the sulfur to blow off and it was fine after that.  I did also notice the powdery character of the yeast, which is a big change from the 1968 I usually use. 

Anyone else get that?  I was a little curious if the residual sulfur from the SMB in the mash could have something to do with it, but that seems unlikely.
Risk of failure should be no deterrent to trying.

Offline stpug

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2016, 08:53:48 PM »
Hi all,

I used this yeast for the first time on my bitter and was wondering if anyone had similar results.  The recipe was pretty typical with some maris otter, crystal, a bit of flaked barley, and some victory.  I mashed at 152 using the low oxygen method for 45 minutes.  The OG was 1.040 and the FG is 1.009, which matched a fast ferment test I did.  Ferment started at 65 and was almost finished at 36hr, with an SG of 1.014. 

So the big thing that I'm put off by is the huge sulfur thing it has going on.  The fast ferment sample of it didn't have this (which fermented at 72), but the main batch has a lot of egg/fart that needs to blow off.  I took the samples and just left them out on the counter for the sulfur to blow off and it was fine after that.  I did also notice the powdery character of the yeast, which is a big change from the 1968 I usually use. 

Anyone else get that?  I was a little curious if the residual sulfur from the SMB in the mash could have something to do with it, but that seems unlikely.

That's decently high attenuation - good job!

My first in the series (best bitter) was brewed using low o2 mashing techniques.  This beer had the SMB dose dialed back to 38mg/l (no-sparge, biab).  I experienced the excessive sulfury fermentation (egg/rhino fart) that I usually experience with low o2 brewing.  Most of this blew off during fermentation, but a hint remained and carried over to the keg.  This yeast seems to have some (small) ability to resolve the sulfur, but not like a lager strain does.  My low dose rate is based on my experience with low o2 brewing with ale yeast strains.  The last two beers in the series did not have low o2 mashing techniques used because I struggle with the excessive residual sulfur character - HATE IT - and I've had too many of these beers brewed since May :D

I keep wondering about krausening a sulfury ale keg with some active lager yeast to see if it will clear it up quickly and completely.  Haven't tried it but it's an idea.

Online natebrews

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2016, 09:35:22 PM »
Well I'm glad it isn't just me.  I'm sure hoping that I can get the sulfur to blow off or I'm going to need to figure something else out.  The krausening thought is interesting, basically I had thought about doing that after blowing off the CO2 that is in solution now, except just using the same yeast that originally fermented it.  If a lager yeast is used (or any other strain), it is going to chew up different sugars (maltotriose for example) that the original strain would have left behind.  So, in order to keep the same profile of unfermented sugars I would just add in some high krausen yeast that I harvested (along with some wort) to recarbonate.

If that high sulfur character is indicative of the low-o2 method, then that might be hard to work with for some styles.

(Note: I had a very vigorous primary fermentation using the Lallemand London ESB yeast).
Risk of failure should be no deterrent to trying.

Offline Philbrew

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2016, 12:17:29 AM »

1.045 - 1.016 = 29
29 / 45 = 64.4% AA

There should be no problem with enough yeast to bottle carbonate your batch.  You generally need to either rack many time over long periods to drop/kill remaining yeast, or sterile filter to leave so little that you cannot bottle carbonate. Generally speaking.
Thanks. I guess 64% AA isn't to bad for this yeast.  I did mash too warm (154-152*).
I was concerned on bottle carb because of the ferment-like-crazy-then-drop-off-a-cliff nature of this yeast.
Reporting early results after eight days in the bottle.   1.045 Best Bitters

- Beer is carbonating just fine.  Whew!

- I mashed with LODO procedures + Brewtan and detect no sulfur character.

- Nice flavor for so young.

- Beer is already killer brilliant.
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline Pricelessbrewing

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2016, 02:03:51 AM »
I still haven't had a chance to use this strain, and now that we know more about it I'm a little dissapointed. I was hoping for a dry version of 1318 or 1968 but the low attenuation and sulfur might be a deal breaker. I ordered some, but the shop was out of it so they gave me 002 instead.

Online natebrews

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2016, 02:34:06 AM »
Assuming the sulfur has something to do with the rest of my process (I'm looking at you lodo), then I think the attenuation is in line with what I would expect but the big thing I noticed is how dusty it is.  I have had a keg in the fridge for a couple weeks now and it still isn't clear.  I usually use 1968, which clears up in no time.
Risk of failure should be no deterrent to trying.

Offline Philbrew

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Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2016, 06:51:22 AM »
Priceless & Nate,
I did LODO and got NO sulfur.  And after 8 days in the bottle it is as brilliantly clear as any beer I've ever seen.  I did fine with gelatin at 35F in the fermenter two days before bottling.

Maybe it's the Brewtan.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 07:02:22 AM by Philbrew »
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.