[Lager]

I am making a Gose and have two questions concerning the use of acidulated malts
1.   When using acidulated malt, do I need to use a separate fermenter, tubing and so forth like you do when using bacterial cultures like Brettanomyces? (keeping in mind that I use Better Bottle and Speidel Plastic Fermenters
2.   One recipe I found and liked recommended doing an hour mash then adding the acidulated malt to the mash and mash for another hour [so the other grains can mash under ideal PH before introducing the acidulated malts. Could I get the same result by doing a steeping of the acidulated malts separately while the main mash is going {in order to save time} and just pour the steeping liquid into the boil kettle  during sparging? Will this get me the same result? 
THANKS IN ADVANCE

[Slowbrew]

I don't know of any reason you would need to isolate equipment if you are using acidulated malt.  My understanding is the main difference is that it has lactic acid added.  It will affect mash PH but it should not leave any residue on your equipment that needs to be worried about.

I haven't the need to use it so I can't really answer your mashing questions.

Paul

[mabrungard]

As long as you are performing typical mashing and boiling practices, there should be no contamination with lactic bacteria.  Any bacteria are left behind in the mash or killed in the boil.  All malt typically has lactic bacteria and other organisms on it.  All killed by the boil.

[jeffy]

As Paul and Martin say above, lactic bacteria and lactic acid are two different things, so you won't need separate equipment to prevent contamination, because there will be no bacteria.
I like your thinking on the acid malt addition after the main mash is finished.  If you do that let us know how it works.

[reverseapachemaster]

Just for the sake of reassuring you, acidulated malt is just regular ass malted barley will acid sprayed on it. It's no more dangerous to your brewing equipment that if you sprayed some of your grain with star-san (which is acid-based).

I'd question why you're buying the acid malt at all. I understand you want the sourness but acid malt is more expensive than regular grain although the premium you pay on the grain is just for a very small amount of acid. If you're just adding the acid malt at the end of the mash you're basically buying grain just for the benefit of rinsing off the acid during the sparge. You could avoid the whole grain part of the acid and save yourself a little cash.

If you're a little more adventurous you could do a sour mash/sour wort to get that sourness but if you just want to buy a product to get sour I think your money is better spent buying a small bottle of lactic acid. It's cheap and it will last you a long, long time. You can avoid worrying about your mash ph with the acid malt by adding the lactic acid in the kettle before the boil or even after fermentation ends so you can adjust to your taste preference and not worry about any harm to the fermentation (not that a gose is sour enough to really worry about that). The only thing you might want to think about when you add lactic acid post-boil it's going to add some of that tangy lactic acid flavor that you may or may not want. Adding it pre-boil tends to produce a more neutral acid flavor because the boil drives off the flavor compounds from the lactic acid.

[mabrungard]

Boy, I echo the comments above.  Why use acid malt at all? Its imprecise and more expensive and a work-around that was fostered by that ill-conceived Reinheitsgebot.  Do the 'right' thing and use liquid lactic acid that you know the strength of and can dose accurately. 

I do not buy the notion that acid malt adds nuances to the beer that liquid lactic acid does not.  When either is dosed properly, they should generally be at or below the taste threshold.   

[duboman]

This is interesting as I have been researching this style of beer since I recently had the opportunity to drink a sample a lab Gose at Boulevard Brewing a couple weeks ago. They had a Hibiscus Gose on tap in the tasting room and I thought it was fantastic!

So I have been looking to put together a recipe to brew and have had the opportunity to trade emails with one of the head brews there. There process is to mash a traditional Gose grist. Then they cool the wort to about 35c and dose it with lactobacillus for the weekend in a CO2 purged vessel to prevent aceobacter. They allow the lacto to drop the pH to about 3.8 and then boil. The salt is added at the foinal 5 minutes and the hibiscus leaves are sacked and added at whirlpool.

I too followed up with him regarding the possible use of lactic acid in the boil or the use of acidulated malt in the grist and his reply was: " The straight addition of lactic acid, while able to sour would probably not yield the proper taste profile and taste more like lactic acid was just added" vs, the natural creation of lactic acid from the bacteria. As for the acidulated malt, his comment was that it would provide a taste profile more in line with the real thing and obviously easier for a home brew scale but still might not yet yield the more natural flavor profile that the bacteria provides.

Either way, I am curious for the input anyone may have. Reading Mosher's Radical brewing he has a recipe for Gose that lists the use of 15% acidulated malt for a 5 gallon batch and only .25tsp of salt at the end of the boil. My first thought was 15% seems like a lot and .25tsp only of salt seems like too small an amount to really come through.

Has anyone tried that recipe and what were/are their thoughts?

[Lager]

Thanks for all of the help so far. I thought it was only a PH thing and should be no "bug" issue, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something for equipment use
I have read similar information from [I think it was Gordon Strong] about the use of Lactic Acid straight up not giving the right taste profile for souring, but can be used during bottling to slightly boast the profile if the initial result isn't sour enough
The cost of the acid malt is really not an issue. It is about the same price as most malts/pound. I was just wondering if I could do the main mash and a separate steep at the same time to save some time
I also pondered the idea of doing a separate sour mash a few days before, but when I had seen some well-known brewer's recipes using the acid malt, I thought that might be easier
I think I am going to stick to the plan of using the acid malt, but would appreciate any feedback on if it would matter if I did: the main mash followed by a second hour mash with the acid malt added, or doing the separate steep and adding the liquid either to the mash before sparging or directly to the boil kettle just prior to boil

[duboman]

Curious to know if you've brewed this yet and which way you went with it

[Lager]

not brewing it until mid May. I let you know in June

[duboman]

not brewing it until mid May. I let you know in June

I brewed my Hibiscus Gose on Saturday using your method of first the traditional mash, then adding the acidulated malt. I used 2lbs of acidulated malt and added it after the 60 minutes, before draining the tun (I batch sparge). I let it rest until the pH dropped to about 3.5 and a little conversion which took about 20 minutes or so.

I'll try and follow up with tastings in a few weeks!

[Jimmy K]

Right about the acidulated malt just being malt with acid added. The other truth here is that all grains are covered in all sorts of organisms anyway - from lactic acid bacteria to wild yeasts. These are killed during the boil so there would be no worry anyway about equipment contamination.

It seems like a good idea to add the acid malt later if it will seriously affect the pH. I wouldn't just steep it though. It needs to be mashed or you'll get a lot of starch in your beer.


- Sent by my R2 unit

[Nate_G]

I am also using a gose recipe that instructs me to add the acidulated malt to my mash after 60 mins; however, my brew supply store milled my grains and mixed them all together.  Does anyone know what will happen if I mash all together at once?  I took the last of the acidulated malt, so not sure when it will be available again.  I'm assuming it's not worth the risk of mashing all at once, but thought I would revive this old thread in the hope there is a way to salvage my grains.  Appreciate any feedback/advice you may have.

[jeffy]

Your pH will be lower than if it wasn't added.  Do you take any measurements or use a water profile, like brunwater?
I doubt it would hurt in the long run, but I guess it could affect mash efficiency.

[Nate_G]

Thanks for the quick response.  I haven't been testing my water, but maybe I should start.  I hadn't heard of brunwater, but just looked into now and will be helpful in the future.  I think I'm just going to risk it and see how it turns out.