[brewinhard]

If it said "It does not include culinary fruit (other than the fruit peels/zest) and grains." that would lead me to think that the zest and pulp are treated like spices and even culinary fruit peels/zest can be allowed.  Confusing, indeed.

Yes, I gathered that as well. No to culinary fruits in the S/H/V category, but the zest and peels of those fruits are acceptable. Learning, learning, learning.

[ynotbrusum]

(FWIW, I'm *slightly* sorry I'm such a dick all the time.  I'm a man, but I can change, If I have to, I guess.)

Don't change from being a man, Dave.  Bruce Jenner did that and she isn't much of a brewer now.

[udubdawg]

*sigh*  it says zest = SHV and Fruit Juice = Fruit.  I don't see the problem.

...it's like the more effort is expended to clarify the more stubborn people have gotten in arguing about it.  As someone even slightly involved in the process it's maddening.

[dmtaylor]

Perhaps it would be enlightening to think of debates such as these in a political fashion.  Consider that for most major elections over the past many years, ignoring all the small third parties, the popular vote is almost always split almost exactly 50/50 between one side or the other, and even with all the polling in the world, we can never know for sure which side is going to win.  Each side also tends to think that the other side is comprised of complete idiots.  So then, can one side truly be right and one side be wrong?  The truth perhaps is that both sides can be both right and wrong at the same time, if we consider that there may in fact be only one universal truth: we are ALL idiots.   

Moderators, please forgive the suggestion of a political discussion, and delete this post if you must.  I am simply trying to illustrate a point that might be related in some fashion to this thread.

In this case, I feel, there should be no declaration of winners or losers.  Neither position is perfect, and never could be, so I'm sure there's little use in trying or even in too much complaining over it.  I'm as guilty as anyone else of this.

[ynotbrusum]

And there is some room for variation within the rules, especially in these "exotic" categories.  I judged two weeks ago and a coconut cream ale was entered in the fruit beer category - that was technically incorrect (SHV per the rules) and had it been a beer to move onto mini-BOS, I would have had to DQ it from winning, but I simply judged it as entered.  And hopefully gave some constructive feedback about balance.

[santoch]

(FWIW, I'm *slightly* sorry I'm such a dick all the time.  I'm a man, but I can change, If I have to, I guess.)

God, I miss the Red Green show!  Duct Tape Forever!

PS - Red Green is a HOMEBREWER!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXyaD5c433A

[JPBEERJP]

Fruity, interesting.
Did  you have any issues in fermentation with foam production? 

[dmtaylor]

(FWIW, I'm *slightly* sorry I'm such a dick all the time.  I'm a man, but I can change, If I have to, I guess.)

God, I miss the Red Green show!  Duct Tape Forever!

PS - Red Green is a HOMEBREWER!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXyaD5c433A

Ha!  Maybe try this link instead:  https://youtu.be/TuUgAaNPlGQ

[santoch]

Yeah, yours is a much better quality version-

My favorite part is when he surgically cuts the hole in the fridge for the plumbing.

[brewinhard]

Fruity, interesting.
Did  you have any issues in fermentation with foam production?

Are you inquiring about the addition of lemon zest to my saison?  If so, I have a great foamy head on this one in the glass. No issues it all. I did clean the lemon pretty well prior to zesting it to remove any wax that might have been used on it though.