[dmtaylor]

When "everyone" but you says something, it may be time to re-examine your point of view.    FWIW, I use Briess rye malt.

Yeah, but, it's NOT "everyone but me".  I have received a lot of support over the years from others saying "you're right! it's really NOT spicy!".

We all perceive things differently, and some of us are supertasters, some are "non"-tasters, etc.  Lots of variables at play.  I will fully admit that I could be wrong.  I will also point out that there is most likely no universal "right" answer, either.  So our arguments are most likely as moot as they are tiresome.

Kind regards, my friend. 

[Joe Sr.]

When "everyone" but you says something, it may be time to re-examine your point of view.    FWIW, I use Briess rye malt.

Yeah, but, it's NOT "everyone but me".  I have received a lot of support over the years from others saying "you're right! it's really NOT spicy!".

We all perceive things differently, and some of us are supertasters, some are "non"-tasters, etc.  Lots of variables at play.  I will fully admit that I could be wrong.  I will also point out that there is most likely no universal "right" answer, either.  So our arguments are most likely as moot as they are tiresome.

Kind regards, my friend. 

I haven't used rye malt in years, but my recollection was it was.... spicy.  In the same way most rye whiskey's are spicy (but not all, so perhaps there is something to your argument).

Regardless, I've had Toby's wee heavy and that dude can make a Scottish ale.  I'd follow his advice all day long.  My recollection is he uses a long boil to get the awesome malty caramel flavors.

[neddles]

Actually in this case, 1450 would work better than rye.

Denny's Favorite 50?  Who the hell is this Denny guy, anyway, and what makes his yeast so awesome over mine or anyone else's?

I kid, I kid.  However I must admit I still never used that yeast.  Need to try it sometime for sure.

It would get him the mouthfeel he's looking for without the flavor of the rye.

I don't want to get sound too crazy here but what if he keeps the rye under 15% (a general guideline I got from you Denny regarding the flavor threshold of rye in a beer) and then uses 1450?

[toby]

Regardless, I've had Toby's wee heavy and that dude can make a Scottish ale.  I'd follow his advice all day long.  My recollection is he uses a long boil to get the awesome malty caramel flavors.

Thanks! Yeah, it's a combination of grist and the long boil. I do a 2 hour vigorous boil to get some maillard complexity. The longer traditional boil was more compensation for a 'simmering' boil (it's expensive and hard to boil that vigorously at a commercial scale). The cook down/pseudo-decoction that a lot of homebrewers use does something similar as well. I just prefer the long boil because less futzing about.

[ynotbrusum]

I've had Toby's Scottish Wee Heavy and WEEEEEE is it heavy!  And by that I mean gooooood.  I would say anyone would like that beer if they like Scottish Ales.

[mabrungard]

This is a style that benefits from a minor amount of sulfate in the water to help dry out the finish. I've been using a profile that is similar to Edinburgh water, except not as extreme (Edinburgh = 140 ppm SO4). I'm targeting something like half that sulfate content and with a lightly bittered and malty wort, it produces a very drinkable beer.

By the way, I'm a big believer in reducing about a quart of first runnings from a 5 gal batch and heating until it turns to magma. They say that the sugars need to be heated to over 300F, but I've not been able to get it quite that high. But when that caramelized wort is rehydrated and reintroduced to the boil kettle, I think it does add a distinct richness.

[toby]

This is a style that benefits from a minor amount of sulfate in the water to help dry out the finish. I've been using a profile that is similar to Edinburgh water, except not as extreme (Edinburgh = 140 ppm SO4). I'm targeting something like half that sulfate content and with a lightly bittered and malty wort, it produces a very drinkable beer.

Funny you say that since I forgot to mention that I do add a healthy amount of both CaCl2 and CaSO4 to my water (0.55g/Gallon of each).  I don't have my spreadsheet here to calculate exact ppm of Ca, Cl, and SO4, but I find that combined with the existing ~75ppm Na in my tap water (which is practically neutral other than Sodium and Bicarbonate) produce a very malty and yet slightly dry end product.

By the way, I'm a big believer in reducing about a quart of first runnings from a 5 gal batch and heating until it turns to magma. They say that the sugars need to be heated to over 300F, but I've not been able to get it quite that high. But when that caramelized wort is rehydrated and reintroduced to the boil kettle, I think it does add a distinct richness.

More than one way to skin a cat.

[bierview]

Hmmm......1450?  I've used that strain many times for Rye IPA and some holiday ales.

[bierview]

Regardless, I've had Toby's wee heavy and that dude can make a Scottish ale.  I'd follow his advice all day long.  My recollection is he uses a long boil to get the awesome malty caramel flavors.

Thanks! Yeah, it's a combination of grist and the long boil. I do a 2 hour vigorous boil to get some maillard complexity. The longer traditional boil was more compensation for a 'simmering' boil (it's expensive and hard to boil that vigorously at a commercial scale). The cook down/pseudo-decoction that a lot of homebrewers use does something similar as well. I just prefer the long boil because less futzing about.

Toby.........care to share your ingredients........

[toby]

Pretty simple. 87.1% Pale Ale malt (preferably English, i.e. MO, Baird, whatever, but I've even used Briess Pale Ale in award winning versions), 8.6% C10, 1.8% Roasted Barley, and a half-pound of Carafoam per 5 gallons.  About 30 IBUs of EKG hops (First Wort Hops).  1728 Yeast.

[neddles]

Pretty simple. 87.1% Pale Ale malt (preferably English, i.e. MO, Baird, whatever, but I've even used Briess Pale Ale in award winning versions), 8.6% C10, 1.8% Roasted Barley, and a half-pound of Carafoam per 5 gallons.  About 30 IBUs of EKG hops (First Wort Hops).  1728 Yeast.

Sounds great. What OG? Mash temp?

[toby]

Barleywine style mash. 149F for 120 minutes.  OG is typically 1.105.

[Joe Sr.]

Long mash + long boil = looooong day.

Do you do anything special to maintain mash temp?  Or does it hold pretty steady for the duration?

[toby]

Long mash + long boil = looooong day.

Yeah, it's one beer that I make sure to get an early start on.  And I only brew it once a year.  It will feel extremely strange the next time I brew it.

Do you do anything special to maintain mash temp?  Or does it hold pretty steady for the duration?

I use a Coleman Xtreme 70 as my mash tun.  A 10 gallon of my scotch ale is what I designed the whole system around.  It just fits.  I have a fleece blanket that I use to cover it to keep the heat in (there is some minor heat loss at the hinges otherwise).  It typically drops less than a degree over 2 hours.  But there's no air space to be concerned about.  My regular beers might drop a degree or 2, but still no more than that.

[69franx]

Thanks for posting Toby, gonna give it a try someday.