Author Topic: BJCP comp question  (Read 1502 times)

Offline brewinhard

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BJCP comp question
« on: September 21, 2016, 06:13:06 PM »
I brewed up a standard strength, pale saison and added some lemon zest to the it. Currently, it is fairly prominant not only in the aroma, but in the flavor and finish. Can I enter it as a fruit beer in an upcoming comp?

Offline dannyjed

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Re: BJCP comp question
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2016, 06:26:37 PM »
It might need to be entered into the Specialty category because fruit beers typically have whole or purée added. Then again if it tastes like whole fruit then go ahead.


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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: BJCP comp question
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2016, 06:55:58 PM »
Yes, enter it as a fruit beer.
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Offline kramerog

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Re: BJCP comp question
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2016, 07:56:12 PM »
It should be in category 30, spiced beer of BJCP 2015.  To quote the description of category: "This category explicitly includes all culinary spices, herbs, and vegetables, as well as ... fruit peels/zest (but not juice), rhubarb, and the like."

Offline brewinhard

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Re: BJCP comp question
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2016, 08:26:27 PM »
Lots of conflicting replies here. I did check the S/H/V 2015 guidelines and I did not see that mentioned about the zest. I will go check again.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: BJCP comp question
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2016, 08:42:14 PM »
SHV also excludes culinary fruit.  Lemon zest comes from culinary fruit.

Yet another SNAFU from the 2015 Guidelines.  Wish I could say I was shocked.   ::)
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Offline Stevie

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Re: BJCP comp question
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2016, 09:10:22 PM »
I think I am leaning towards agreement with Dave. If the lemon character is strong enough to call it a lemon saison, enter as fruit beer.

I don't agree with the fruit beer has whole or puree argument. Plenty of beers, for better or worse, use extract.

SHV would be more like Major's beer made with kaffir lime leaves.

Offline santoch

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Re: BJCP comp question
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2016, 12:37:28 AM »
If you are concerned, just a couple drops of lemon juice "to drop the pH" and your conscience will let you sleep soundly if you enter it as a fruit beer.

Don't sweat it.
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Offline udubdawg

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Re: BJCP comp question
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2016, 03:04:16 PM »
Ignore Dave and his continual need to trash the guidelines.  It's not lemon, it's lemon zest.

It goes in SHV

30. SPICED BEER
We use the common or culinary definitions of spices, herbs, and vegetables, not botanical or scientific ones. In general, spices are the
dried seeds, seed pods, fruit, roots, bark, etc. of plants used for flavoring food. Herbs are leafy plants or parts of plants (leaves,
flowers, petals, stalks) used for flavoring foods. Vegetables are savory or less sweet edible plant products, used primarily for cooking
or sometimes eating raw. Vegetables can include some botanical fruit. This category explicitly includes all culinary spices, herbs, and
vegetables, as well as nuts (anything with ‘nut’ in the name, including coconut), chile peppers, coffee, chocolate, spruce tips, rose hips,
hibiscus, fruit peels/zest (but not juice), rhubarb, and the like. It does not include culinary fruit or grains. Flavorful fermentable
sugars and syrups (agave nectar, maple syrup, molasses, sorghum, treacle, honey, etc.) can be included only in combination with
other allowable ingredients, and should not have a dominant character. Any combination of allowable ingredients may also be
entered. See Category 29 for a definition and examples of fruit.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: BJCP comp question
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2016, 04:05:34 PM »
Ignore Dave and his continual need to trash the guidelines.  It's not lemon, it's lemon zest.

It goes in SHV

30. SPICED BEER
We use the common or culinary definitions of spices, herbs, and vegetables, not botanical or scientific ones. In general, spices are the
dried seeds, seed pods, fruit, roots, bark, etc. of plants used for flavoring food. Herbs are leafy plants or parts of plants (leaves,
flowers, petals, stalks) used for flavoring foods. Vegetables are savory or less sweet edible plant products, used primarily for cooking
or sometimes eating raw. Vegetables can include some botanical fruit. This category explicitly includes all culinary spices, herbs, and
vegetables, as well as nuts (anything with ‘nut’ in the name, including coconut), chile peppers, coffee, chocolate, spruce tips, rose hips,
hibiscus, fruit peels/zest (but not juice), rhubarb, and the like. It does not include culinary fruit or grains. Flavorful fermentable
sugars and syrups (agave nectar, maple syrup, molasses, sorghum, treacle, honey, etc.) can be included only in combination with
other allowable ingredients, and should not have a dominant character. Any combination of allowable ingredients may also be
entered. See Category 29 for a definition and examples of fruit.

I think Dave may be right here.  Gordon?
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: BJCP comp question
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2016, 04:07:53 PM »
yes the guidelines are a bit confusing here

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: BJCP comp question
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2016, 04:11:07 PM »
(FWIW, I'm *slightly* sorry I'm such a dick all the time.  I'm a man, but I can change, If I have to, I guess.)
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: BJCP comp question
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2016, 04:12:53 PM »
If it said "It does not include culinary fruit (other than the fruit peels/zest) and grains." that would lead me to think that the zest and pulp are treated like spices and even culinary fruit peels/zest can be allowed.  Confusing, indeed.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: BJCP comp question
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2016, 04:13:59 PM »
I ended up entering as fruit beer (saison with lemon) . I highly doubt one will really be able to tell the difference between lemon zest and straight lemon in a somewhat already tart saison. We shall see how the judges percieve it.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: BJCP comp question
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2016, 04:14:55 PM »
I highly doubt one will really be able to tell the difference between lemon zest and straight lemon in a somewhat already tart saison.

My thoughts exactly.
Dave

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