Author Topic: fermenting IPA with spunding valve  (Read 7047 times)

The Beerery

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fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2016, 11:00:55 PM »
Anyone who uses a corny keg can not actually purge a keg properly.  The proper way to purge a keg is a series of vacuum and purges. Unfortunately the corny keg can't withstand the proper pressures needed for this.   Ascorbic at kegging with an improper purge is going to potentially facilitate Fenton reactions. Research carbonyls for reference materials on this.


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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2016, 11:14:04 PM »
Anyone who uses a corny keg can not actually purge a keg properly.  The proper way to purge a keg is a series of vacuum and purges. Unfortunately the corny keg can't withstand the proper pressures needed for this.   Ascorbic at kegging with an improper purge is going to potentially facilitate Fenton reactions. Research carbonyls for reference materials on this.


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Maybe I don't fully understand - I thought Fenton reactions were tied more to iron and copper ions ?

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2008.tb00318.x/pdf


There are many references in brewing literature to some breweries using ascorbic as an antioxidant in beer. You're saying it's more about the inability to fully purge the corny before using?
Jon H.

The Beerery

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fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2016, 11:23:38 PM »
Ascorbic is a known super oxidizer. So the improper purge is going to hurt you.  Seriously the simplest thing would be to fill keg with Sanitizer push it out. Then naturally carb in the keg.  Yeast is natures best antioxidant. Metal isn't the only things that can cause these reactions. Cleaners and sanitizers do as well.


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« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 11:27:40 PM by The Beerery »

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2016, 11:29:59 PM »
Ascorbic is a known super oxidizer. So the improper purge is going to hurt you.  Seriously the simplest thing would be to fill keg with Sanitizer push it out. Then naturally carb in the keg.  Yeast is natures best antioxidant. Metal isn't the only things that can cause these reactions. Cleaners and sanitizers do as well.


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I do push out with sanitizer. The ascorbic has been intended as added insurance.
Jon H.

Offline natebrews

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Re: fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2016, 11:30:45 PM »
If you are going to naturally carbonate with yeast, is it really even that important purge the keg well?  The yeast are very good at scavenging up oxygen, so would it be sufficient to just blow out the keg with some CO2 (or just no purge)? 

For completeness, when I naturally carbonate in a keg I usually bring 250mL of wort up to high krausen and then dump that in.  After that is all done I adjust with forced carbonation.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 11:33:56 PM by natebrews »
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The Beerery

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Re: fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2016, 11:38:06 PM »
Ascorbic is a known super oxidizer. So the improper purge is going to hurt you.  Seriously the simplest thing would be to fill keg with Sanitizer push it out. Then naturally carb in the keg.  Yeast is natures best antioxidant. Metal isn't the only things that can cause these reactions. Cleaners and sanitizers do as well.


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I do push out with sanitizer. The ascorbic has been intended as added insurance.
How do you add ascorbic, after you push out? If so sadly it's a moot point once you break that seal.


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The Beerery

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Re: fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2016, 11:39:03 PM »
If you are going to naturally carbonate with yeast, is it really even that important purge the keg well?  The yeast are very good at scavenging up oxygen, so would it be sufficient to just blow out the keg with some CO2 (or just no purge)? 

For completeness, when I naturally carbonate in a keg I usually bring 250mL of wort up to high krausen and then dump that in.  After that is all done I adjust with forced carbonation.
I would because even though that is all true. I want the least amount of oxygen in contact with my beer for the shortest possible time.


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Offline Stevie

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fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2016, 11:50:55 PM »
My issue with your method of communication is it is completely absolute. No step will affect an improvement if all steps aren't followed. This absolutism along with general rude comments turns me off from taking anything you say seriously.

The Beerery

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Re: fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2016, 12:39:12 AM »
Sounds like you have some issues you need to work though then. I wish you luck in that! 

Beer is the sum of all parts. Not one. I don't make the rules on this. The answers are usually pretty black and white. If you doubt my answers I throughly encourage you to do research on the subject. 


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Offline Stevie

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Re: fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2016, 12:47:37 AM »
And he responds with a personal attack.

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2016, 03:37:00 AM »
My method would be to ferment in a keg with a blow off attached to the in line. Then, after a couple of days replace the blow off by a spunding valve. Then fill the serving keg with sanitizer to the rim and push it out with co2. And then transfer the carbonated beer to the serving keg.
Frank P.

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Offline erockrph

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Re: fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2016, 03:22:52 AM »
My method would be to ferment in a keg with a blow off attached to the in line. Then, after a couple of days replace the blow off by a spunding valve. Then fill the serving keg with sanitizer to the rim and push it out with co2. And then transfer the carbonated beer to the serving keg.
I leave the spunding valve as loose as it will go while still maintaining a light seal for the start of fermentation. It's basically just acting like an airlock at that point. As fermentation winds down I tighten it up to hold in some of the final CO2 from fermentation. I'll force carb the rest of the way from there if needed.
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2016, 10:46:45 AM »
My spunding valve cannot be adjusted. It only has a prv.
Frank P.

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Offline zwiller

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Re: fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2016, 03:12:13 PM »
I am at a loss.  Spunding a beer that gets dry hopped just seems redundant.  So you're carbing prior to dry hop, then later cracking keg to add hops?  While I think spunding is a very good idea to reduce exposure to O2, I am not sure will really make a large difference/improve an IPA.  It might keep it fresher longer tho.  Many other things can be done to improve IPA and 2 of the best recently for me have been polyclar in whirlpool and crash cooling prior to dry hop.  That said, my IPA's dry hop fades after about 3 weeks.  I plan to try ascorbic and see how that goes.  I do expect it work and if I get another week or so great.  A keg of IPA lasts about a month at best at my house. 
Sam
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2016, 03:33:33 PM »
I am at a loss.  Spunding a beer that gets dry hopped just seems redundant.  So you're carbing prior to dry hop, then later cracking keg to add hops?  While I think spunding is a very good idea to reduce exposure to O2, I am not sure will really make a large difference/improve an IPA.  It might keep it fresher longer tho.  Many other things can be done to improve IPA and 2 of the best recently for me have been polyclar in whirlpool and crash cooling prior to dry hop.  That said, my IPA's dry hop fades after about 3 weeks.  I plan to try ascorbic and see how that goes.  I do expect it work and if I get another week or so great.  A keg of IPA lasts about a month at best at my house.
You have a point there. In the meanwhile I am brewing not an IPA but an American Blonde without dry-hopping. I postponed the dry-hopping complications to another brew.  Anyone have any good experience with the combination of spunding and dry-hopping?
Frank P.

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