[natebriscoe]

There is also this thing where the pitch temp and the fermentation temp = 30c that is some type of German wheat rule of thumb.

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[majorvices]

Depends what you are trying to do, 72 hours at 58 and then ramping up to 64-66 gives me the best blend of phenolics and banana. There are also German weissbier brewers that ferment much warmer.

Anyone truly interested in the stye the book by Warner is excellent (so is his Kölsch book)

[natebriscoe]

Depends what you are trying to do, 72 hours at 58 and then ramping up to 64-66 gives me the best blend of phenolics and banana. There are also German weissbier brewers that ferment much warmer.

Anyone truly interested in the stye the book by Warner is excellent (so is his Kölsch book)

I like this profile as well. Other than the 72 hours, I would be at terminal gravity by then. But 24 works for me.

[majorvices]

Depends what you are trying to do, 72 hours at 58 and then ramping up to 64-66 gives me the best blend of phenolics and banana. There are also German weissbier brewers that ferment much warmer.

Anyone truly interested in the stye the book by Warner is excellent (so is his Kölsch book)

I like this profile as well. Other than the 72 hours, I would be at terminal gravity by then. But 24 works for me.

You may be overpitching then.

[natebriscoe]

Depends what you are trying to do, 72 hours at 58 and then ramping up to 64-66 gives me the best blend of phenolics and banana. There are also German weissbier brewers that ferment much warmer.

Anyone truly interested in the stye the book by Warner is excellent (so is his Kölsch book)

I like this profile as well. Other than the 72 hours, I would be at terminal gravity by then. But 24 works for me.

You may be overpitching then.

What's wrong with a 3 day medium  gravity ale fermentation? I do tend to pitch closer to commercial pitch rates.

[Ale Farmer]

What also makes me think twice about brewing a hefe is that its flavor starts to deteriorate rather quickly--even if we manage to make a damn good one. But no matter: I'll still continue to brew it and just try to drink every last bottle more quickly....

[majorvices]

Depends what you are trying to do, 72 hours at 58 and then ramping up to 64-66 gives me the best blend of phenolics and banana. There are also German weissbier brewers that ferment much warmer.

Anyone truly interested in the stye the book by Warner is excellent (so is his Kölsch book)

I like this profile as well. Other than the 72 hours, I would be at terminal gravity by then. But 24 works for me.

You may be overpitching then.

What's wrong with a 3 day medium  gravity ale fermentation? I do tend to pitch closer to commercial pitch rates.

For a wheat beer you want to actually pitch near the low end of the range to develop those yeast flavors. And if you are pitching at 58 it should take longer than 3 days to reach terminal gravity on an ale yeast. I brew a Belgian wheat beer regularly (as a commercial brewer pitching at "commercial rates" I should add ) and generally have about 5-6 day fermentations which is exactly what I want.

I personally think a 72 hour fermentation on just about any style of beer except for the very lowest SG beers is simply too fast of a fermentation. You simply want some of that yeast growth to happen to create those pleasant yeast derived flavors. You certainly don't want too much yeast growth or you can get solventy flavors and problems with head retention. But you can also get "yeast bite" problems on beers that are overpitched and fast fermented.

Of course, as with everything brewing, YMMV and your process may work totally fine for you. I'm just speaking from experience (but also from what I have learned over the years).

[natebriscoe]

Depends what you are trying to do, 72 hours at 58 and then ramping up to 64-66 gives me the best blend of phenolics and banana. There are also German weissbier brewers that ferment much warmer.

Anyone truly interested in the stye the book by Warner is excellent (so is his Kölsch book)

I like this profile as well. Other than the 72 hours, I would be at terminal gravity by then. But 24 works for me.

You may be overpitching then.

What's wrong with a 3 day medium  gravity ale fermentation? I do tend to pitch closer to commercial pitch rates.

For a wheat beer you want to actually pitch near the low end of the range to develop those yeast flavors. And if you are pitching at 58 it should take longer than 3 days to reach terminal gravity on an ale yeast. I brew a Belgian wheat beer regularly (as a commercial brewer pitching at "commercial rates" I should add ) and generally have about 5-6 day fermentations which is exactly what I want.

I personally think a 72 hour fermentation on just about any style of beer except for the very lowest SG beers is simply too fast of a fermentation. You simply want some of that yeast growth to happen to create those pleasant yeast derived flavors. You certainly don't want too much yeast growth or you can get solventy flavors and problems with head retention. But you can also get "yeast bite" problems on beers that are overpitched and fast fermented.

Of course, as with everything brewing, YMMV and your process may work totally fine for you. I'm just speaking from experience (but also from what I have learned over the years).

The commercial guys I know tend to pitch a bit higher than most homebrewer's would. I get clean beers with with a good Ester profile for whatever strain used. Some may take 4 or 5 days, but wlp300 is a beast every time I use it.
But to each there own
Cheers

[beersk]

That's crazy...I doubt that's what Weihenstephaner does...

I thought the same. I can't claim any knowledge of their practices though. But quite a few brewers (some here, some brewer friends of mine) seem to feel that 3068 is more clove heavy from 62-64F, more banana/bubblegum above 65F.  Maybe a difference in perception. I've never heard of it being used in the 50s, though.

Yep, Eric Warner's great book "Brewing German Wheat Beers" recommends starting off at 58 degrees and he worked at a Bavarian weissbier brewery. It is one of the best CBS series books. Some aren't very good but that one is essential to understanding the secrets of brewring German Hefeweizen.

Ok, I stand corrected. Never read it. On the odd time that I brew one, I like my temp profile. May give it a shot someday.

I've read it and must have glossed over that bit. I'm going to try it on the hefe I'm brewing this weekend for the Halloween party it'll be consumed at.

[davidw]

Yep, Eric Warner's great book "Brewing German Wheat Beers" recommends starting off at 58 degrees and he worked at a Bavarian weissbier brewery. It is one of the best CBS series books. Some aren't very good but that one is essential to understanding the secrets of brewring German Hefeweizen.

Agreed! I particularly like the part where he recounts the first morning break they took, sitting down and he ordered coffee or something, one of the brewers nixed that and a round of wheat beer came to the table. IIRC they considered it 'food for the brain'.

[beersk]

Yep, Eric Warner's great book "Brewing German Wheat Beers" recommends starting off at 58 degrees and he worked at a Bavarian weissbier brewery. It is one of the best CBS series books. Some aren't very good but that one is essential to understanding the secrets of brewring German Hefeweizen.

Agreed! I particularly like the part where he recounts the first morning break they took, sitting down and he ordered coffee or something, one of the brewers nixed that and a round of wheat beer came to the table. IIRC they considered it 'food for the brain'.

I remember that too. Really wish I could have a hefe with breakfast...aides in digestion!

[natebriscoe]

Depends what you are trying to do, 72 hours at 58 and then ramping up to 64-66 gives me the best blend of phenolics and banana. There are also German weissbier brewers that ferment much warmer.

Anyone truly interested in the stye the book by Warner is excellent (so is his Kölsch book)

I like this profile as well. Other than the 72 hours, I would be at terminal gravity by then. But 24 works for me.

You may be overpitching then.

What's wrong with a 3 day medium  gravity ale fermentation? I do tend to pitch closer to commercial pitch rates.

For a wheat beer you want to actually pitch near the low end of the range to develop those yeast flavors. And if you are pitching at 58 it should take longer than 3 days to reach terminal gravity on an ale yeast. I brew a Belgian wheat beer regularly (as a commercial brewer pitching at "commercial rates" I should add ) and generally have about 5-6 day fermentations which is exactly what I want.

I personally think a 72 hour fermentation on just about any style of beer except for the very lowest SG beers is simply too fast of a fermentation. You simply want some of that yeast growth to happen to create those pleasant yeast derived flavors. You certainly don't want too much yeast growth or you can get solventy flavors and problems with head retention. But you can also get "yeast bite" problems on beers that are overpitched and fast fermented.

Of course, as with everything brewing, YMMV and your process may work totally fine for you. I'm just speaking from experience (but also from what I have learned over the years).

Sounds like your not a fan of under pitching either? (Seems like everyone wants to under pitch Belgians and English beers)

[zwiller]

Yep, Eric Warner's great book "Brewing German Wheat Beers" recommends starting off at 58 degrees and he worked at a Bavarian weissbier brewery. It is one of the best CBS series books. Some aren't very good but that one is essential to understanding the secrets of brewring German Hefeweizen.

Agreed! I particularly like the part where he recounts the first morning break they took, sitting down and he ordered coffee or something, one of the brewers nixed that and a round of wheat beer came to the table. IIRC they considered it 'food for the brain'.

I remember that too. Really wish I could have a hefe with breakfast...aides in digestion!

LOVE that book.  I really wanted all the decoction stuff to be the magic, but it isn't.  I think many of the things mentioned here are good suggestions, but I've tried most of them.  I did the 58F pitch and resulting beer was very neutral.  Major covered it, open fermenations are basically a large scale thing and not an issue for us.  Skimming is something to try, but I cannot imagine it having a large impact but maybe it's a form of yeast stress...  In my own experience, using distilled water with acid malt to a pH of 5.2 has gotten me the closest.   

I am not really saying these suggestions won't work, but to me, there is a fundamental difference here.  Lately, I am kinda wondering if could be a spunding/bottle priming with speise thing.  Makes sense, somehow they are keeping all the magic emanating from the airlock in the beer (that's probably my best stab at describing the difference).  It's covered in Warner's book too.  Let us not forget that hefe is highly carbonated so there would be even more impact on the beer than a lager.  Also makes sense as you'd be carrying over some yeast and that's a good thing for hefe. 

[natebriscoe]

I don't think there is that one thing to a beer that makes it great. It's the right combination of good things. I.e. without great fermentation, lodo is useless.

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[pkrone]

Yep, Eric Warner's great book "Brewing German Wheat Beers" recommends starting off at 58 degrees and he worked at a Bavarian weissbier brewery. It is one of the best CBS series books. Some aren't very good but that one is essential to understanding the secrets of brewring German Hefeweizen.

Agreed! I particularly like the part where he recounts the first morning break they took, sitting down and he ordered coffee or something, one of the brewers nixed that and a round of wheat beer came to the table. IIRC they considered it 'food for the brain'.

I remember that too. Really wish I could have a hefe with breakfast...aides in digestion!

Gotta have a nice weisswurst too!