[majorvices]

I'm guessing that the difference comes from the depths of the fermenters. Modern cylindroconicals can have significant depth, while the straight side walls of a square fermenter make it structurally more difficult to make them deep. The 1000 bbl cylindroconical fermenters I saw at Sweetwater in Atlanta were probably over 40 ft tall.

So it's the depth not the shape. At the homebrew level I am guessing it wouldn't matter.
A 6 gallon round bucket vs. a 6 gallon square bucket would make no difference?

I mean, common if anyone things that the difference in a 5 gallon batch of homebrew is going to come from a square fermentor they are also an astrology wizard. Maybe you would notice a difference on a shallow container however.

[JJeffers09]

Paula Cartwright, brews her german wheats in open plastic bins vs a bucket.  There are some people suggesting at the homebrew level the positive benefits open squares are resulting better results then open buckets.  John Palmer is one of them.

[majorvices]

Sounds like someone needs to do an experiment. No way I am buying it untill I see results.

[santoch]

Maybe in the square fermenters, they can send the bad yeast to stand in the corner?

[brewinhard]

Maybe in the square fermenters, they can send the bad yeast to stand in the corner?

Ha!  Those jerk overly-phenolic ones...

[JJeffers09]

I get your point that the natural yeast floating around in your house from whatever is in the air.  But I think to the point of a square fermenter vs a round on, how many of us have a 10 gallon round bin that has the same surface area the wort is exposed to like the yorkshire round?  That is where I see the biggest difference at the homebrew level.  However in the spirit of sharing here, I think there are plenty of things to experiment with.  I plan to, and when I get around to it, I will document it.  For anyone interested in any of this, or want to debate it pm me.  I'd love to talk it out, and hear what variables you'd like to see tested.  Because hey, I am just the new guy around here in this community.

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[Phil_M]

I think reliably good open fermentations are possible. Like anything else in our hobby, but with the right ingredients, tools, and knowledge, why wouldn't it work?

And square fermenters certainly make a difference. Does it apply to the homebrew scale?

That's the question I've been wasting time on lately. Aside from the difference in thermal mass and other similar parameters, how much else is different? Are we just using poor approaches to brewing, much like folks bottling on the floor because that's how The Joy of Homebrewing being done?

[Hand of Dom]

I've heard of people in the UK using those underbed storage boxes as fermenters. 

[zwiller]

OK.  I tried to find more info as to the rationale to the fermentor geometry thing.  Apparently it is a convection thing since the yeast activity is apparently round.  So, in essence a square fermentor reduces exothermic energy.  That makes sense.  It also makes sense an open fermentor would also reduce the same.  Still sounds like something only that would impact large scale brewing.  Going back to the IT thing.  I have often suspect IT is just really killer fresh malt and theorized that "re-kilning" the malt in the oven might kick things up in that regard.  Like an hour or 2 at 170F so no maillard action, just simply reducing moisture content/reducing oxidative precursors.  Might try that on the next hefe.  At least this SOUNDS like it could work?   

[pkrone]

I think you're right with the fresh malt thing.   When I was in Bavaria this past summer I noticed that even most of the smaller, local brewers did their own malting.  Just another factor in the "individualness" of every weissbier I sampled over there (and it was a lot). 

[hopfenundmalz]

I think you're right with the fresh malt thing.   When I was in Bavaria this past summer I noticed that even most of the smaller, local brewers did their own malting.  Just another factor in the "individualness" of every weissbier I sampled over there (and it was a lot).

Can you name which ones? Interested.

The ones around Bamberg use malt from Weyermann or Bamberg Malz. Of course, Schlenkerla and Spezial malt and dry their own malt over beechwood fires. A place in Niederbayern goes up towards Regensburg to get their malt.

It looked like Traunstein and Schönram used to. Ayinger had the bins adjacent to the brewhouse.

I have read that Augustiner and Paulaner have maltings at the breweries in Munich

[HoosierBrew]

  Going back to the IT thing.  I have often suspect IT is just really killer fresh malt and theorized that "re-kilning" the malt in the oven might kick things up in that regard.  Like an hour or 2 at 170F so no maillard action, just simply reducing moisture content/reducing oxidative precursors.  Might try that on the next hefe.  At least this SOUNDS like it could work?   

I still feel that it's a part of the equation.  I'm curious to see what you think of the re-kining's effect, if any.

[zwiller]

The re-kilning idea is basically a shameful attempt to get out of malting at home.  Malting at home makes LODO look simple. 

Small scale (16oz) trial being conducted right now (girls have cheer practice/wedding stuff).  Started at 11AM EST.  Temp is set at 170F and plan to stir and assess every 15m.  I am using Briess 2 row.  The malt itself has little to no aroma, maybe a slight hay like smell.  At 15m, the hay aroma has definitely increased and reminding me of of my cousin's farm/barns.  No increase in maltiness/sweetness or IT.  30m pretty much the same.  45m decrease in hay/barn but still no malt action.  Nothing changing color/roasting/burning either.  More to follow soon. 

[natebriscoe]

The re-kilning idea is basically a shameful attempt to get out of malting at home.  Malting at home makes LODO look simple. 

Small scale (16oz) trial being conducted right now (girls have cheer practice/wedding stuff).  Started at 11AM EST.  Temp is set at 170F and plan to stir and assess every 15m.  I am using Briess 2 row.  The malt itself has little to no aroma, maybe a slight hay like smell.  At 15m, the hay aroma has definitely increased and reminding me of of my cousin's farm/barns.  No increase in maltiness/sweetness or IT.  30m pretty much the same.  45m decrease in hay/barn but still no malt action.  Nothing changing color/roasting/burning either.  More to follow soon.

Domestic 2 row isn't the most flavorful malt to play with. Even with low oxygen mashing domestic 2 row is pretty neutral. Ps. lodo really is pretty simple.

[zwiller]

@ 1hr even less hay;  1:15 same;  1:30 starting to think we might be turning a corner towards malty but not 100% sure.  Spoon smells pretty dang cool.  Not malty or sweet, but a very real smell like standing in the middle of a field on a nice day vibe. 

I've never experienced any real notable differences in domestic vs import (2 row vs GR pils) in the past even though I cave for the real deal on my hefe (Weyermann usually).   Main reason I used Briess is one time I got a sack so fresh, it literally stunk up my car for a week with only being in there for a 10m ride.  So I know there's potential.  In the end, I think freshness might trump origin or variety.  Someone is welcome to run their own trial on some imported stuff.