[Lazy Ant Brewing]

Brewed a lactose brown recipe with 20% caramel and found it to be too sweet for my palate.  Is a reduction to 15% of the total grain bill a good amount to try when I brew it again, or should I go with about one-half of that amount?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[Iliff Ave]

I personally would not go with more than 10% especially if you are using lactose. When I use caramel malt, it is rarely above 5% but that is personal preference.

[HoosierBrew]

20% crystal plus lactose? Wow. I don't know what your goal is, but I'd use less than half that amount in any beer, especially where you're using lactose.

[fmader]

Boarder line chocolate milk?

[denny]

Or more bittering and sulfate.

[brewinhard]

Or more bittering and sulfate.

This, or sometimes (sometimes....) a lower mash temp and resulting lower FG can work.

[HoosierBrew]

I agree that hops and sulfate as well as a lower FG can help dry out an otherwise sweet beer. But 20% crystal and lactose is pretty extreme. I think he'd like it a lot better with 5% crystal and then the lactose, or drop the lactose and up the crystal closer to 10%. Just me.

[hopfenundmalz]

One needs to consider the final beer character and how to get there. The Crystal Police always say no more than 5%. I think that comes from IPA, where the sweetness and dark fruit of some crystal clash with the hops. I did a dark Czech lager for NHC. I did get some criticism from the masses, more on how the accent on Lezak should have had the upside down carrot. Some had studied in the Czech Republic, so they knew the language. Then I would ask about the beer, and they would say it was really representative. It had 15% Weyeramann Carabohemian. I had that style of beer, a Kozel at the PU brewery, and I said dang that beer was really close!

Think about the final beer, the ingredients, and the process that will get you there.

[denny]

One needs to consider the final beer character and how to get there. The Crystal Police always say no more than 5%. I think that comes from IPA, where the sweetness and dark fruit of some crystal clash with the hops. I did a dark Czech lager for NHC. I did get some criticism from the masses, more on how the accent on Lezak should have had the upside down carrot. Some had studied in the Czech Republic, so they knew the language. Then I would ask about the beer, and they would say it was really representative. It had 15% Weyeramann Carabohemian. I had that style of beer, a Kozel at the PU brewery, and I said dang that beer was really close!

Think about the final beer, the ingredients, and the process that will get you there.

Wise words.

[jim atlas]

I often use 10% Crystal malt in a pale ale .  I wouldn't shy away from 15% in a red etc.  However, I'd think hard about dropping the lactose.

[HoosierBrew]

Just want to reiterate that I'm not a crystal hater (or police ) , though I do limit it in IPAs. Personal preference. But OTOH I make a SN Celebration Ale type beer with 10% C60, and a really good Arrogant Bastard type beer with 10% Special B, among other beers with moderate - high crystal. I definitely think that having an arbitrary max for crystal is silly, when the goal should be to use what it takes to make the beer you're after. I threw out 5% as a suggestion given the lactose used, as we all know how sweet lactose alone can make a beer.

Edit - My other suggestion of ~ 10% crystal with no lactose is probably the better of the two IMO.