[JJeffers09]

Has anyone tried it?  If it turns out like the description/stats hit it may be my house saison strain.  Faster fermenter like French strains, more interesting flavor profile like the Belgian strains but doesn't stall out like those do.  So I am going to give it a shot on this red saison I made 5 hrs ago.

BJCP question - if a table strength red malt forward saison has a bubblegum banana aroma and flavor does it crash land in competition based on 2 things - 1 Being red, malty, and lemony (I used lemon peel) and 2 having banana and bubblegum aromas

[kramerog]

IIRC, OYL stalled on me.  Anyway, I've decided to stick with DuPont.

Are you using Red X malt?  If the beer fits under dark saison, I don't see why malty would be an issue except that malty tends to be the enemy of dry.

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[JJeffers09]

I did a partigyle...

#20 RedX
#3 8oz Munich 7L
#1 8oz Caramunich 45L

for 2 amber beers

"Batch Sparged" again for a 3rd beer the Table saison

I added
#1 12oz Toasted Flaked Oats
#1 8oz  Amber Candy 10.8%

Finished at 1.052

[porterpounder]

The red, malty, lemony may do fine if it finishes dry, but with the banana and bubblegum if noticeable will probably take a hit.

[HoosierBrew]

The red, malty, lemony may do fine if it finishes dry, but with the banana and bubblegum if noticeable will probably take a hit.

My thought, too. Color isn't really an issue with saison, but the banana character would probably get it dinged.

[mrybka]

I just did a batch with the Saisonstein Monster.   Used 1 pack for 4.5 gal.   Started at 1.050 and 68 degrees (my ambient).  Went up to 72 degrees by itself.   Seemed to start a little slow and airlock was never bubbling super crazy.   I just checked it after 10 days and gravity is 1.002.  Took a taste and it is just how I thought it should be.   Going to dry hop before bottling.

Cheers!

[JJeffers09]

I have never tasted a saison with bubblegum or banana but Omega sure does describe this strain as having it.  Which I don't know I have ever heard of that as a positive aroma or flavor in a saison.

I sent them an email asking about more information on their tasting notes from this strain.  As well as asking them there opinion if it matches style guidelines.  That may have came across as a dickish homebrewer, but I will take my chances.

[JJeffers09]

From Omega
"...I'm actually a little surprised that the guidelines don't mention bubblegum.  The Dupont strain (and the beer itself) is known to have a pronounced bubblegum character.  Our hybrid strain tastes much more like the Dupont strain than the other parent, French Saison, it just performs much more reliably than Dupont.  The bubblegum produced by our hybrid is definitely noticeable..."

[brewinhard]

From Omega
"...I'm actually a little surprised that the guidelines don't mention bubblegum.  The Dupont strain (and the beer itself) is known to have a pronounced bubblegum character.  Our hybrid strain tastes much more like the Dupont strain than the other parent, French Saison, it just performs much more reliably than Dupont.  The bubblegum produced by our hybrid is definitely noticeable..."

I totally disagree. I have never gotten bubblegum from a good (read fairly fresh, at least as one can get) Dupont bottle.

[JJeffers09]

From Omega
"...I'm actually a little surprised that the guidelines don't mention bubblegum.  The Dupont strain (and the beer itself) is known to have a pronounced bubblegum character.  Our hybrid strain tastes much more like the Dupont strain than the other parent, French Saison, it just performs much more reliably than Dupont.  The bubblegum produced by our hybrid is definitely noticeable..."

I totally disagree. I have never gotten bubblegum from a good (read fairly fresh, at least as one can get) Dupont bottle.

Then we are on the same page.  I asked them to put the esters to a scale compared to hefe strains and I got this

"...I would say less banana than a hefe but more bubblegum.  Along with the typical saison fruitiness and a touch of spiciness..."

[HoosierBrew]

I haven't used it but I remember a couple brewers posting that they liked it. That bubblegum character has to be temp dependent to a big extent. Go too warm and you're likely to get more of it. I'll bet if you hold 67F-ish for a couple days, then let it rise slowly to the low-mid 70s, you'll keep it in check. Saison strains (and Belgians in general) are pretty temp sensitive. I'll be curious to see what you think.

[brewinhard]

I haven't used it but I remember a couple brewers posting that they liked it. That bubblegum character has to be temp dependent to a big extent. Go too warm and you're likely to get more of it. I'll bet if you hold 67F-ish for a couple days, then let it rise slowly to the low-mid 70s, you'll keep it in check. Saison strains (and Belgians in general) are pretty temp sensitive. I'll be curious to see what you think.

Agreed. I totally get it in warmer ferment temps with 3787 and 1214 (iso-amyl acetate).

[HoosierBrew]

I haven't used it but I remember a couple brewers posting that they liked it. That bubblegum character has to be temp dependent to a big extent. Go too warm and you're likely to get more of it. I'll bet if you hold 67F-ish for a couple days, then let it rise slowly to the low-mid 70s, you'll keep it in check. Saison strains (and Belgians in general) are pretty temp sensitive. I'll be curious to see what you think.

Agreed. I totally get it in warmer ferment temps with 3787 and 1214 (iso-amyl acetate).

I went too warm with 1214 the first time I used it - it had more banana than any hefe I've ever had, not in a remotely good way. A total banana bomb that overpowered every aspect of the beer. It's crazy temp sensitive. Great if used right, though.

[kramerog]

Re BJCP question, if you have enough lemon character than beer should go as spice, herb, vegetable beer in category 30A.   

[JJeffers09]

I don't think it will be a strong lemon character.  It is only 2oz of lemon peels at flameout, I don't think that will take it to a 30A.  But time will tell.  I will have to taste it to make that decision.  But that is a good point kramerog