[BEAGLEBREWINGCO]

Hi folks
My Pale Ale is delish - a Two Hearted clone. This batch I used SalFale US 05 dry yeast and beer is cloudy, reached 5.65 ABV in the keg - no secondary. First batch was great got to 6.2 % but back then I was bottling and using White Labs Pure Pitch Cal Ale and I got gorgeous clarity but it was bottle conditioned. Questions ...what is likelihood cloudiness caused by either yeast or lack of settling (did not rack twice). Has been in keg at 4 degrees C for 2 weeks. Drinks really well. No off flavours / aromas at all. Not real keen on filtering in case I lose some flavour. Could cloudiness be residual yeast and could this cause some tummy pains for my valuable patrons ? Cheers

[natebrews]

I have seen US-05 take longer to clear up than some other strains.  Could you use biofine or something (gelatin would fix it fast, but I don't know if you want to use an animal product)?

[santoch]

Did you use whirlfloc?

[BEAGLEBREWINGCO]

Thanks Nate - not a bad idea on the gelatine - I have used it successfully on wine. But I have set myself the goal of not using additives - especially the plastic clarifiers worry me. But interested in the comment it could be yeast related. I tried some microscopy on it but just got confused by it. Will do some more soon ( which will no doubt create more Q's) - thanks for your comment.

[HoosierBrew]

Yeah, sounds like residual yeast in suspension - S05 takes a little longer to clear than 1056/001.  I like gelatin best to drop out yeast, but hop character may drop off a tad since you're dropping out yeast that absorb hop oils. But since you keg, you can always add a couple oz of dry hops in a fine mesh nylon bag to the keg to compensate. What I do.



Edit -  Excellent procedure for using gelatin:

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/06/how-to-clear-your-beer-with-gelatin.html

[BEAGLEBREWINGCO]

Thanks Santoch - no, no WhirlFloc - Irish Moss sounds interesting while trying to keep it natural. Interested in comments also about the source of cloudiness - hot and cold breaks seemed to go well and also well racked off (but once only). Possibly think I could have gone 1-2 days longer on initial fermentation and also crash cooling - prob 6 days in each case were used this time round. Maybe could have gone to 7-8 each ?

[natebrews]

To the point of stripping hop character from the beer with gelatin, the brulospohy guys have done many experiments on gelatin's effect on hop character (http://brulosophy.com/exbeeriments/) and found that it didn't statistically alter the beer to blind tasters (unless there are newer experiments I haven't read yet). 

That said, if it was hop compounds that were on the yeasts then you were planning for those to drop out anyway so you would have had to compensate for that in any case.

As far as ferement time, if there aren't any off flavors in the beer then I don't know that letting it sit longer in primary fermentation would have mattered much.

If you let the beer warm up, does the haze go away?  Chill haze can cause you to chase your tail if you don't realize that is what it is.

[BEAGLEBREWINGCO]

Thanks Hoosier and Nate - yeh my microscopy suggests yeast but I want to go back and confirm, will suspended yeast cause tummy problems for drinkers ? Bottle conditioning seems to pack down sediments nicely in the bottom of the bottle. I note find commercial Brewers with bottle conditioning indicate "yes that's yeast floating in our beer' - so should I be worried at all about impact of suspended yeast to clients digestive comfort ?

Interesting how so many blind taste tests can't pick up ANYTHING - eg: taste testing when influenced by labelling but all the beers are the same ! A tricky 'science' - perhaps there are so many variables between humans and beers and tasting methods - that tastings will never be useful ?

Thanks for tips on gelatine vs hop character, I might go back to White Labs and report back on results vs Salfale.

[HoosierBrew]

To the point of stripping hop character from the beer with gelatin, the brulospohy guys have done many experiments on gelatin's effect on hop character (http://brulosophy.com/exbeeriments/) and found that it didn't statistically alter the beer to blind tasters (unless there are newer experiments I haven't read yet). 

That said, if it was hop compounds that were on the yeasts then you were planning for those to drop out anyway so you would have had to compensate for that in any case.

I'm not suggesting that the brewer (or anybody) needs to do what I do but since he stated he is concerned with dropping the (likely yeast) haze at the expense of hop character, there are pro brewers (Vinnie Cilurzo among others) who believe in the power of yeast to diminish dry hop character. Vinnie dry hops clear beer,but this guy doesn't have clear beer yet, no? Being a hophead, I have dry hopped many beers over 20+ years - adding a touch more after dropping the yeast has never yet led to an inferior beer, no offense to Marshall. Another $0.02  .

[BEAGLEBREWINGCO]

Good suggest on the cold test - I will check that out - I noticed my sample I took got microscopy seemed to be clearer at room temp - so I might do a comparison test on that theory.

Thx for all your comments folks

[natebrews]

I wasn't trying to argue the method (I have done the same a lot), I was just trying to add possibly useful information.  Not being a hophead, I have to take others word for it.

[HoosierBrew]

I wasn't trying to argue the method (I have done the same a lot), I was just trying to add possibly useful information.  Not being a hophead, I have to take others word for it.

Ok, all good! Just a believer in there often being multiple ways to make good beer.

[bigchicken]

Hi folks
My Pale Ale is delish - a Two Hearted clone. This batch I used SalFale US 05 dry yeast and beer is cloudy, reached 5.65 ABV in the keg - no secondary. First batch was great got to 6.2 % but back then I was bottling and using White Labs Pure Pitch Cal Ale and I got gorgeous clarity but it was bottle conditioned. Questions ...what is likelihood cloudiness caused by either yeast or lack of settling (did not rack twice). Has been in keg at 4 degrees C for 2 weeks. Drinks really well. No off flavours / aromas at all. Not real keen on filtering in case I lose some flavour. Could cloudiness be residual yeast and could this cause some tummy pains for my valuable patrons ? Cheers

No tummy issues to worry about from the yeast in suspension.

US 05 takes time to drop out, but will with a patient fermentation. I let it go 2-3 weeks in the primary and I never rack off the yeast until I'm ready to bottle. The bottles are clear as soon as they're carbed and ready to drink unless I get sloppy with the racking.



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[fmader]

I'm pretty much an exclusive liquid yeast brewer. I bleed a DIPA in the spring, and used S-05. It was a test to see if I could save time and money. Not only was the beer cloudy for at least a couple months, it never tasted as clean as it does when I use WLP001. So never again lol.

On a side note, I've always wanted to make a true clone of Two Hearted by propagating Bell's house yeast from bottle dregs.... but I don't have time for all that.

[HoosierBrew]

I'm pretty much an exclusive liquid yeast brewer.

Same here, Frank. I keep some S05 around but I only use it for 1 gallon hop trial batches. I just prefer liquid cultures. Each his own.