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Author Topic: true effect of pH on finished beer  (Read 9718 times)

Offline zwiller

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Re: true effect of pH on finished beer
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2016, 10:36:33 am »
zwiller - "a final pH of 4.5 is considered the norm as it a pH where no biological contaminants can survive in."

A finished beer does drop into the 4.1-4.5 pH ranges.  However "no biological contaminants can survive" is a false statement.
(Jeff beat me)
Touche'.  I should have not rushed to post before heading to work.  ;D  There's sours that go much lower and even many british ales are in the high 3's but a pH of 4.5 OR LOWER is the norm as it a pH that no HARMFUL contaminants THRIVE.  My understanding is the main culprit is botulism. 
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline brewinhard

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Re: true effect of pH on finished beer
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2016, 12:45:52 pm »
I strongly caution against chasing mash pH. If you have used a reliable mashing chemistry calculator, the pH is more likely to be within a tenth or two of your target. In addition, I've found that mashing pH consistently tends to correct itself toward a pH of about 5.4. So if you measure an overly low pH, it will rise during the mash duration. And the opposite occurs if the early pH was too high.

This seems to confirm the RDWHAHB mantra.

This I understand and after this latest observation, I will not chase again. Just wanted to report what I observed and what some local judging picked up on with regards to this.

Offline zwiller

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Re: true effect of pH on finished beer
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2016, 01:23:06 pm »
I strongly caution against chasing mash pH. If you have used a reliable mashing chemistry calculator, the pH is more likely to be within a tenth or two of your target. In addition, I've found that mashing pH consistently tends to correct itself toward a pH of about 5.4. So if you measure an overly low pH, it will rise during the mash duration. And the opposite occurs if the early pH was too high.

This seems to confirm the RDWHAHB mantra.

This I understand and after this latest observation, I will not chase again. Just wanted to report what I observed and what some local judging picked up on with regards to this.

Did you measure pre-boil/KO/final? I suspect all the things you added basically were offsetting each other and actually made no real impact on pH.  Also, not measuring mash pH greatly extends life of the electrode IMO.
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: true effect of pH on finished beer
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2016, 02:32:08 pm »
I strongly caution against chasing mash pH. If you have used a reliable mashing chemistry calculator, the pH is more likely to be within a tenth or two of your target. In addition, I've found that mashing pH consistently tends to correct itself toward a pH of about 5.4. So if you measure an overly low pH, it will rise during the mash duration. And the opposite occurs if the early pH was too high.

This seems to confirm the RDWHAHB mantra.

This I understand and after this latest observation, I will not chase again. Just wanted to report what I observed and what some local judging picked up on with regards to this.

Did you measure pre-boil/KO/final? I suspect all the things you added basically were offsetting each other and actually made no real impact on pH.  Also, not measuring mash pH greatly extends life of the electrode IMO.

Well not if you are measuring mash ph at room temp like you should be.


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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Offline zwiller

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Re: true effect of pH on finished beer
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2016, 07:56:42 am »

Well not if you are measuring mash ph at room temp like you should be.


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Goes without saying, but all the junk in the mash really fouls the electrode.  I got ALOT more life out of mine not measuring the mash.  Just giving another good reason to leave it alone. 
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline brewinhard

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Re: true effect of pH on finished beer
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2016, 05:32:56 pm »
Just measured a grain free room temp mash pH as usual. Both times for the disparaged readings.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: true effect of pH on finished beer
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2016, 07:21:07 pm »
Just measured a grain free room temp mash pH as usual. Both times for the disparaged readings.
??? What .....I'm not understanding.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline brewinhard

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Re: true effect of pH on finished beer
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2016, 09:56:16 am »
Just measured a grain free room temp mash pH as usual. Both times for the disparaged readings.
??? What .....I'm not understanding.

Sorry. Both readings I took were grain free, clear wort, measured at room temperatures for mash pH.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: true effect of pH on finished beer
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2016, 10:15:36 am »
Just measured a grain free room temp mash pH as usual. Both times for the disparaged readings.
??? What .....I'm not understanding.

Sorry. Both readings I took were grain free, clear wort, measured at room temperatures for mash pH.
Got it!


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: true effect of pH on finished beer
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2016, 07:58:30 am »
I strongly caution against chasing mash pH. If you have used a reliable mashing chemistry calculator, the pH is more likely to be within a tenth or two of your target. In addition, I've found that mashing pH consistently tends to correct itself toward a pH of about 5.4. So if you measure an overly low pH, it will rise during the mash duration. And the opposite occurs if the early pH was too high.

This seems to confirm the RDWHAHB mantra.
Sometimes it does move towards 5.4, and sometimes it doesn't.  I'm not sure at all why but I've experienced it staying right about where it measured after 10 minute reading.


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline brewinhard

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Re: true effect of pH on finished beer
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2016, 03:12:06 pm »
Half of me just wants to wait to take a reading with 10 minutes left in the mash. I mean, if I am not going to make any corrections, then why rush around to get to a reading after only 10-15 min. into the mash?

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: true effect of pH on finished beer
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2016, 06:34:25 pm »
Half of me just wants to wait to take a reading with 10 minutes left in the mash. I mean, if I am not going to make any corrections, then why rush around to get to a reading after only 10-15 min. into the mash?

I almost always take a reading at 10mins and then take reading of first running.  Interesting to see if it stays about the same or shifts as described in previous posts.


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline brewinhard

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Re: true effect of pH on finished beer
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2016, 12:36:12 pm »
Half of me just wants to wait to take a reading with 10 minutes left in the mash. I mean, if I am not going to make any corrections, then why rush around to get to a reading after only 10-15 min. into the mash?

I almost always take a reading at 10mins and then take reading of first running.  Interesting to see if it stays about the same or shifts as described in previous posts.


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So, initial reading after only 10 min in mash, followed by first runnings reading?  Have you noticed discrepancies between the two?

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: true effect of pH on finished beer
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2016, 06:55:58 pm »
Half of me just wants to wait to take a reading with 10 minutes left in the mash. I mean, if I am not going to make any corrections, then why rush around to get to a reading after only 10-15 min. into the mash?

I almost always take a reading at 10mins and then take reading of first running.  Interesting to see if it stays about the same or shifts as described in previous posts.


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So, initial reading after only 10 min in mash, followed by first runnings reading?  Have you noticed discrepancies between the two?
Sometimes, yes....sometimes no. That's the perplexing issue at hand.


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest