[curtdogg]

Fellow Home brewers,

Ill be brewing my first Stout soon. The grain bill calls for.

2 Row
Flaked Oats
Victory
C 80
Black Patent
Choco malt
Pale Choco malt

I want the nice creamy head and the glass lacing that I would get with a pro beer.
Will a protein rest help to give it these characteristics? Or am I wasting my time because the modern grains do not really benefit from this?

I'm also thinking of substituting the choco malt with choco rye malt, any opinion on that?

I appreciate your help.

R, Curtis

[brewinhard]

A protein rest will only hurt your head retention in the long run as most grains are more than modified enough for our brewing purposes.
Adding some chocolate rye malt will definltely help with your head formation. It leaves a rounder, fuller body in beers and a nice sticky head to boot (at least IMO)>

[denny]

Foam is much more dependent on process than ingredients....http://byo.com/stories/article/indices/35-head-retention/697-getting-good-beer-foam-techniques

[Joe Sr.]

With the flaked oats, I don't think you'd get any additional benefit from the rye.

Also, why pale chocolate and chocolate?

[curtdogg]

Thanks guys,

Brewinhard,
I've been reading how protein rest is supposed to help head retention. Ill just stick with a single infusion per the recipe.  I can experiment another day.

 I'm very interested to try the chocolate rye, I've read it has a nicer chocolate flavor but I have to order it, cant find it around here.

Denny I'll have to read that article later tonight. Thank You.

Joe,
What do you mean additional benefits?

I've heard Jamil say to use 2 different crystal malts in your recipe for complexity. Maybe its the same concept for the 2 different chocolate malts, both ends of the spectrum.?

The recipe is an NHC gold medal winner https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/robs-oatmeal-stout-2/  I wanted a good base to build from.

[neddles]

The recipe is an NHC gold medal winner https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/robs-oatmeal-stout-2/  I wanted a good base to build from.

Before you make that recipe, get a close look at the AA on those Goldings he used for bittering. 18.5% AA from Goldings is either a typo or his Goldings were harvested from near Chernobyl. Unfortunately the recipe does not state the target IBU's.

[ynotbrusum]

I'm sure that it is more like 4-5.5% alpha acid content for East Kent Goldings.  The recipe looks solid and tweak away, but realize that the more tweaks you make, the further away you are from that winning recipe!  Which could be exactly what you want...or not.  That's the fun in this hobby.  And everyone has their own taste preferences.  Give your recipe a shot and you be the judge.  You can always make further or fewer changes on your next batch.

[dmtaylor]

A protein rest would likely have exactly the opposite effect of what you desire.  In my experience, it can destroy body and head retention.

My cheater's method for excellent body and head retention: rye.  Substitute about 10% of the base malt with either rye malt or flaked rye.  It works every time.  And yes, chocolate rye is a fantastic option for this style, I love the chocolate rye and have used it to good effect many times.

[HoosierBrew]

A protein rest would likely have exactly the opposite effect of what you desire.  In my experience, it can destroy body and head retention.

+1.  Not to rest.

[Joe Sr.]

Joe,
What do you mean additional benefits?

In my experience, flaked oats will help with head retention.  Same with flaked barley.  I don't care for what rye brings to the table in beer, but obviously others do. 

I've never used pale chocolate, so I don't know what it will add.  But perhaps it will help add complexity.  A lot of times a simpler grain bill is better, but I have some I brew that are a tad busy with different grains.  As long as you're adding it for a reason (and following a proven recipe is a solid reason) no one should argue with it.

[dilluh98]

Tasting pale chocolate vs chocolate malts I get a subtle difference: pale chocolate malt has both coffee and chocolate character but it leans more toward chocolate while chocolate malt leans a bit more toward coffee.

[zwiller]

Or am I wasting my time because the modern grains do not really benefit from this?

THIS;  It's been a long time but seems cold crashing made an nice improvement on my beer's foam. 

Not sure if you are ready for it but you likely need some water adjustments for a beer that dark.  I like baking soda for dark ones, but check out Bru'n water if you haven't already.  Lastly, I bet 18.5% is the IBU.  Some of us old timers used to show it that way.  Makes sense too, 4oz of EKG to hit 18.5 seems right. 

[curtdogg]

Thank you everybody, so much great info.

I assumed the same that the IBU was 18.5. But just in case I looked at some other recipes and decided to stay under 25 IBU. I had the Shakespeare stout recently for research purposes and I felt it was too hoppy.
I poured my wife a glass and she thought it was a Black IPA.

Eventually I want to work up too brewing something epic like KBS.

My extent of water chemistry at this point would be pH 5.2. I have read some things about using distilled water and building up from there. What exactly would baking soda do? I know it will raise pH.

[zwiller]

Forget 5.2.  Basically, the dark roasted grains likely will lower the pH of the wort and resulting beer a little too lower than you want.  It affects flavor too.  No need to go into full water treatment yet, but I would suggest adding 1tsp of baking soda to mash unless your water is notorious for being hard like Ireland   

[curtdogg]

I added the tsp of baking powder as suggested and my mash pH was around 6. What do you think this will affect in the long run?
Also this time around my mash efficiency according to BS 2 was 65%.
My efficiency has never been above 72% anyway.
I would love to get this dialed in one day.