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Author Topic: To rest or not to rest, that is the question.  (Read 5969 times)

Offline neddles

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Re: To rest or not to rest, that is the question.
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2016, 12:35:43 pm »
I added the tsp of baking powder as suggested and my mash pH was around 6. What do you think this will affect in the long run?
Also this time around my mash efficiency according to BS 2 was 65%.
My efficiency has never been above 72% anyway.
I would love to get this dialed in one day.

The recommendation was for baking soda not baking powder. That said it was a bad recommendation as a full tsp. of sodium bicarbonate is going to move your pH way up and is the reason for your pH of 6. Wish I would have seen the recommendation and alerted you before you did it.

EDIT: Use this as an opportunity to motivate you to learn to use BrunWater and know what is going on in the mash.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 12:38:20 pm by neddles »

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: To rest or not to rest, that is the question.
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2016, 12:46:19 pm »
I also question the recommendation for baking soda (or baking powder!).  While I do use it for the darkest beers, I find that I don't want or need it in the mash, but rather I add it only after the mash is complete, immediately prior to the boil.  Sorry I didn't see this either.
Dave

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Offline curtdogg

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Re: To rest or not to rest, that is the question.
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2016, 10:48:02 pm »
Sorry guys it was baking soda, that was a type o.

Because nobody questioned it I thought it was a legit idea. So would I stay away from pH5.2 while brewing darker beers?

Do you think the baking soda is going to create off flavors? This was supposed to be a beer for the holidays, ill just wait it out and see how it tastes. Unfortunately I don't have room in my freezer for another fermenter.

I really appreciate everyone's help. I'm sure even the Baking Soda guy meant well. :o
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: To rest or not to rest, that is the question.
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2016, 10:50:17 pm »
Hard to say for sure if there will be a flavor impact.  Look for a chalky, metallic flavor.  If you pick that up, it is from the baking soda.

However my bet is that it will turn out just fine.  Hope so!
Dave

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Offline majorvices

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Re: To rest or not to rest, that is the question.
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2016, 05:09:41 am »
Fellow Home brewers,

Ill be brewing my first Stout soon. The grain bill calls for.

2 Row
Flaked Oats
Victory
C 80
Black Patent
Choco malt
Pale Choco malt

I want the nice creamy head and the glass lacing that I would get with a pro beer.
Will a protein rest help to give it these characteristics? Or am I wasting my time because the modern grains do not really benefit from this?

I'm also thinking of substituting the choco malt with choco rye malt, any opinion on that?

I appreciate your help.

R, Curtis

Personally, for me, roasted barley for stout and Black Patent for porter. Although I do agree they can be interchanged (and are in some rare commercial instances).

Offline zwiller

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Re: To rest or not to rest, that is the question.
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2016, 06:53:05 am »
Sorry guys it was baking soda, that was a type o.

Because nobody questioned it I thought it was a legit idea. So would I stay away from pH5.2 while brewing darker beers?

Do you think the baking soda is going to create off flavors? This was supposed to be a beer for the holidays, ill just wait it out and see how it tastes. Unfortunately I don't have room in my freezer for another fermenter.

I really appreciate everyone's help. I'm sure even the Baking Soda guy meant well. :o
Baking soda guy here...   ;D  Contrary to popular belief I put some thought into that recommendation.  First off, baking soda rocks for dark beers.  Sodium contribution is perfect along the roast.  Look at any chocolate recipe, be it ice cream/cookies/cake, there is salt/sodium.  Also, it is much more forgiving to use than say chalk or lime where you can really overdo it.  With my water I am using about 1/2tsp and my water is well known to be hard and since Curt didn't respond about his water being hard I figured it was not and stuck to the full tsp.  There's a chance he took the reading early in the mash and it takes time for the reaction to occur so potentially he might fine.  I shoot for 5.6 on my dark stuff BTW.   

70% is pretty good efficiency.  To get the high numbers posted round these parts you have to mill your own.  Crush is the key.  That said, 70% is fine. 
 
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: To rest or not to rest, that is the question.
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2016, 08:08:41 am »
Flavor contributions from sodium etc. are certainly valid, if the water source is lacking.  However, assumptions were made that led to an apparent mash pH of 6 according to the OP, which may or may not have some unintended effects on the recipe.  Goal for mash pH based on everything I've ever seen or heard should be like 5.2-5.5, or maybe 5.6 at most as you stated.  Had the soda been added after the mash instead of before, then you could get the flavor impacts (improvements?) without mash pH going so high.  In the end, though, I agree, it looks like we're probably lucky and everything will turn out just fine, hopefully, unless perhaps his water is notoriously hard like Ireland, or moderately hard (like Two Rivers, Wisconsin), in which case, keep fingers crossed.
Dave

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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: To rest or not to rest, that is the question.
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2016, 08:27:02 am »
Personally, for me, roasted barley for stout and Black Patent for porter. Although I do agree they can be interchanged (and are in some rare commercial instances).

I'm pretty much the opposite, though I do use both in a stout.  For me, BP has a sharper flavor that I'd rather avoid with a porter.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: To rest or not to rest, that is the question.
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2016, 08:33:10 am »
Personally, for me, roasted barley for stout and Black Patent for porter. Although I do agree they can be interchanged (and are in some rare commercial instances).

I'm pretty much the opposite, though I do use both in a stout.  For me, BP has a sharper flavor that I'd rather avoid with a porter.

I myself am a huge fan of chocolate malt in either style, and roasted barley in stouts.  I don't care for BP as much either.

Diff'rent strokes.
Dave

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: To rest or not to rest, that is the question.
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2016, 08:35:56 am »
Personally, for me, roasted barley for stout and Black Patent for porter. Although I do agree they can be interchanged (and are in some rare commercial instances).


My approach, too, along with chocolate in either.
Jon H.

Offline zwiller

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Re: To rest or not to rest, that is the question.
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2016, 08:36:59 am »
Sodium contribution of the full tsp does not raise any issues in BNW and the pH can of course corrected by acid if need be.  In retrospect, I was a bit aggressive with the pH suggestion and will probably stay away from recommending any pH adjustments without a water report in the future.  That said, I still remember how bad my first dark beers were.  Very acrid/ciderish and this was due to too low a pH and was hoping to get the OP to avoid this.  Very common fault for AG brewers unless they have water like Dublin.  ;D   
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: To rest or not to rest, that is the question.
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2016, 08:42:04 am »
I still remember how bad my first dark beers were.  Very acrid/ciderish and this was due to too low a pH and was hoping to get the OP to avoid this.  Very common fault for AG brewers unless they have water like Dublin.  ;D

I have noticed this effect in a LOT of commercial beers.  A simple post-mash addition of baking soda resolves this.  Or even use it during the mash if appropriate if mash pH is super low.  For my water at my house, I have to wait until after the mash.  Lots of carbonates and alkalinity already in my source water.  And then I only ever use a fairy dust amount like 1/4 teaspoon or something along that amount (for 3-5 gallons).
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 08:44:55 am by dmtaylor »
Dave

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: To rest or not to rest, that is the question.
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2016, 08:51:11 am »
I have noticed this effect in a LOT of commercial beers.  A simple post-mash addition of baking soda resolves this.  Or even use it during the mash if appropriate if mash pH is super low.


Yep. I'll never forget the first stout I made after getting a handle on pH. I added (and still add) baking soda into the mash at a higher pH and... voila. Damn good beer. 
Jon H.

Offline zwiller

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Re: To rest or not to rest, that is the question.
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2016, 10:12:35 am »
So there you have it: It's either gonna be really good or really bad.  ;D
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline denny

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Re: To rest or not to rest, that is the question.
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2016, 10:35:18 am »
Sorry guys it was baking soda, that was a type o.

Because nobody questioned it I thought it was a legit idea. So would I stay away from pH5.2 while brewing darker beers?


Stay away from 5.2 for ANY beer.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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