[homoeccentricus]

I was able to get the podcast on Itunes.

My question is, where can I get some Brewtan B?  I'd love to experiment with it.

In Belgium. I think it was invented here. We Belgians sprinkle it on donuts, like icing. I can send you a couple of grams by mail, if you like.

[ynotbrusum]

I streamed it last night - enjoyed it, as usual.  I also do Drew's approach of sanitizer with CO2 purging and that seems to have reduced oxidation noticeably.  I heard about it at NHC this summer and now include it in my regular routine along with kegging direct from fermenter (those fermenters with valves) to keg (in the out tube via QCD with prv cracked to allow flow, to further eliminate O2 contact.  Maybe I'm imagining, but it seems to retain freshness better....

[Big Monk]

The interview was underwhelming from a technical standpoint.

Obviously I was turned off by the condescending attitude to Low O2.

I find it interesting that the experiment will consist of a collection of subjective opinions on ones own beer. Even more interesting is the impetus for the experiment being Denny's own subjective opinion about his own beer.

I don't think the irony will be lost on anyone. Do you know another group of people who were derided and laughed out of town because their opinions on a certain brewing method were said to be lacking objectivity?

[Stevie]

I'll be participating in the Brewtan experiment and plan on having 20-30 participants using a double blind triangle test.

I've said before that I am skeptical of the Magic bullet, but I'm certainly interested in giving it a shot.

[denny]

The interview was underwhelming from a technical standpoint.

Obviously I was turned off by the condescending attitude to Low O2.

I find it interesting that the experiment will consist of a collection of subjective opinions on ones own beer. Even more interesting is the impetus for the experiment being Denny's own subjective opinion about his own beer.

I don't think the irony will be lost on anyone. Do you know another group of people who were derided and laughed out of town because their opinions on a certain brewing method were said to be lacking objectivity?

Wow, we were condescending about LODO?  Sorry, I really wanted to avoid giving that impression.

Underwhelming technically on what way?  What would yo have liked to have known that wasn't there?  Hopefully we can correct it next time.

You realize that these brewers will be presenting their beer blind to groups of people?  That it won't be just their own opinions?  I would think you'd applaud the fact that I don't trust my subjective opinion and I want verification one way or the other.

[dmtaylor]

I listened yesterday and I honestly didn't hear anything condescending.

And let me just say, I'm telling you -- I *know* condescending, believe me. (spoken in the voice of the presidential candidate who shall not be named)

I did find the information to be... very introductory.  But appropriately so, since this is all so new to us silly Americans.  It will be good to hear the final results of the blind triangles later.  It would be kind of cool too if all the IGORs could send some beers to Joe and/or Denny to get their blind perceptions if possible.  Or, send them to me! -- I promise I'm not biased one way or the other anymore, I'm telling you, believe me. 

[denny]

I listened yesterday and I honestly didn't hear anything condescending.

And let me just say, I'm telling you -- I *know* condescending, believe me. (spoken in the voice of the presidential candidate who shall not be named)

I did find the information to be... very introductory.  But appropriately so, since this is all so new to us silly Americans.  It will be good to hear the final results of the blind triangles later.  It would be kind of cool too if all the IGORs could send some beers to Joe and/or Denny to get their blind perceptions if possible.  Or, send them to me! -- I promise I'm not biased one way or the other anymore, I'm telling you, believe me. 

While I'd love to try the beers, I'm more than satisfied with the results of the blind triangles.

[denny]

I listened yesterday and I honestly didn't hear anything condescending.

And let me just say, I'm telling you -- I *know* condescending, believe me. (spoken in the voice of the presidential candidate who shall not be named)

I did find the information to be... very introductory.  But appropriately so, since this is all so new to us silly Americans.  It will be good to hear the final results of the blind triangles later.  It would be kind of cool too if all the IGORs could send some beers to Joe and/or Denny to get their blind perceptions if possible.  Or, send them to me! -- I promise I'm not biased one way or the other anymore, I'm telling you, believe me. 

Yes, it was introductory becasue it was an introduction to the product and the experiment.  I'm glad we at least got THAT right!

[stpug]

Obviously I was turned off by the condescending attitude to Low O2.

Wow, we were condescending about LODO?  Sorry, I really wanted to avoid giving that impression.

Your bias/skepticism clearly shows through from 34:25-35:00, and it may be a touch condescending, but who cares - it's your and Drew's podcast and you'll drive it how you want.

I don't think the irony will be lost on anyone. Do you know another group of people who were derided and laughed out of town because their opinions on a certain brewing method were said to be lacking objectivity?

Nearly every non-status-quo brewing method I can think of (bucket fly-sparging in the 90s, batch sparging, biab, low o2 brewing, etc), but once it becomes status-quo then we're all good

[Philbrew]

Probably should weigh out a 1/4 tsp and go by weight/volume of water.  Maybe do a few samples to average the weight, if 1/4 tsp is difficult to measure out...

Ya know, it just doesn't matter all that much if you're a bit off.

Maybe I should email Joe but I'll try here first.
I just ordered 100 gms from Au.  Approx. how many tsp is that?  Or about how many 5 gal. batches?

[denny]

Your bias/skepticism clearly shows through from 34:25-35:00, and it may be a touch condescending, but who cares - it's your and Drew's podcast and you'll drive it how you want.

Darn...I was trying to avoid that.  My apology.

[ynotbrusum]

I knew Denny's position vis a vis LODO going in, so it didn't land so harshly on my ears.  Like I noted above, I am doing some things to minimize uptake of oxygen and seeing pretty good results.  I view both of the other steps (Brewtan B and GBF suggestions) as merely this - (i) additives that assist chemically to guard against oxidation or otherwise create potentially better tasting beer by binding with compounds and chemicals to minimize or eliminate occasional problems and (ii) processes which attempt to assist in guarding against oxidation and otherwise improve beer quality or stability. 

As I see it, there is room at the table for all of this and I think Joe was saying that Brewtan B can help with a number of different things, regardless of what else you use or process you take to make your beer the best that you feel you want it to be (though some things may counteract the effect of others). 

Some additives or processes are within one person's horizon and beyond that same horizon for another brewer, who is content with his beer and feels that the additional marginal effort (be it process or additive) is beyond his needs or beyond what he wishes to undertake in this hobby without further proof of the extent of improvement to be obtained by the effort.

[HoosierBrew]

I knew Denny's position vis a vis LODO going in, so it didn't land so harshly on my ears.  Like I noted above, I am doing some things to minimize uptake of oxygen and seeing pretty good results.  I view both of the other steps (Brewtan B and GBF suggestions) as merely this - (i) additives that assist chemically to guard against oxidation or otherwise create potentially better tasting beer by binding with compounds and chemicals to minimize or eliminate occasional problems and (ii) processes which attempt to assist in guarding against oxidation and otherwise improve beer quality or stability. 

As I see it, there is room at the table for all of this and I think Joe was saying that Brewtan B can help with a number of different things, regardless of what else you use or process you take to make your beer the best that you feel you want it to be (though some things may counteract the effect of others). 

Some additives or processes are within one person's horizon and beyond that same horizon for another brewer, who is content with his beer and feels that the additional marginal effort (be it process or additive) is beyond his needs or beyond what he wishes to undertake in this hobby without further proof of the extent of improvement to be obtained by the effort.

Totally agree. I think maybe things have gotten a little silly if we're actually charting each others' skepticism with minutes and seconds on a podcast. I mean, damn! Who cares whether other people are brewing the way you like? There is only ONE way to brew correctly - namely the way that meets your goals and capabilities. We've jumped the shark here on the peeing contest.



Edit for spelling poorly.

[Philbrew]

Some additives or processes are within one person's horizon and beyond that same horizon for another brewer,

ynot you are a bard!
I've been homebrewing for two years so I'm still a newbie.  But the beer I brew now is the best I've ever tasted (OK, not a high bar). And I'm always looking for a way to improve.  But the lodo *all or nothing...you have to do all steps fully or there's no benefit doing any* is very discouraging.

[beersk]

Some additives or processes are within one person's horizon and beyond that same horizon for another brewer,

ynot you are a bard!
I've been homebrewing for two years so I'm still a newbie.  But the beer I brew now is the best I've ever tasted (OK, not a high bar). And I'm always looking for a way to improve.  But the lodo *all or nothing...you have to do all steps fully or there's no benefit doing any* is very discouraging.

Agreed, it is discouraging. What about when you were brewing extract? Was all grain brewing discouraging because it required so much more equipment, time, and commitment? This is next-level sh*t, dude. No one said it was easy. But I know how you feel. I'm not there yet either; it's a journey, not a destination. The fun is seeing the improvement in the beers.