Author Topic: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing  (Read 84211 times)

Offline stpug

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #1020 on: January 29, 2017, 12:54:46 AM »
Something I didn't mention was that my additions were to the initial mash water (no sparge), and I didn't add any further down the line.  I do have a copper coil chiller, which probably isn't going to change in the very near future.

I just put a keg of Czech 12P Lager  with ultra hops in the keg fridge that also used the SMB/AA combination.  I took a small sample of it and didn't notice the same effect thing but it needs to lager and clear up. 

On the pale ale, it is something that lasts for a very long time (1hr+) after I drink it.  I tried it again today and only had maybe 1oz of it and still got the effect.  I'm beginning to wonder if I'm having some sort of reaction to something in it rather than just a flavor (maybe one of the hops or something).

I don't know about the sulfate levels in your APA, but I've had pretty bad tongue-coating dryness and "wallboard" flavor in a couple beers where the levels of sulfate was around the 300ppm range. I've since kept my sulfate levels sub-250 so I don't have to experience that again.  If you think you may have traveled up into that region or near it then perhaps it's a sulfate issue (i.e. gypsum and epsom).

And that sparks another memory about magnesium having a harsh, chemically nuance to it in excessive amounts.  Can't recall the specifics on this one though.

Offline natebrews

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #1021 on: January 29, 2017, 01:24:42 AM »
Nah, I'm sure that isn't it.  Sulfate should be in the area of 75ppm.  I don't load up on the gypsum, and I never put any epsom in it.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #1022 on: January 29, 2017, 02:43:55 AM »
This is a question for those using AA and SMB.  Have you ever noticed any flavor that you would attribute to the ascorbic? 



<Gigantic sigh>   Damn, I go out of town for a day and it goes to hell in a handbasket.  At the risk of stirring a strangely boiling pot, I'm gonna answer this question, only because I have something to offer. I have been using the 45 SMB/45 Ascorbic/10 Brewtan mixture lately in the mash - not exactly a 50/50 mixture, but plenty close. I haven't picked up on any negative character whatsover in the Dunkels, APA or the IPA. Only good beer.

Edit -  I was gonna keep my tongue but nah, that gets old at a certain point, and I'm well beyond pissed.   So.....I couldn't give a fraction of a rat's a$$ who brews how and I don't make judgments (nor should I). But this topic has become the central flashpoint for people, most of which don't really know each other and never will. Constructive, respectful disagreement is healthy and productive for forming solid, informed opinions on brewing. Otherwise is not and is counterproductive.

Here's what I consider NOT constructive or ok on this forum:   

1/  Passionately  posting what I consider to be valid science and improvements to the hobby in a way that gives people the impression that everyone else is making subpar/ shi##y beer. Delivery is big.

2/  Deliberately and very obviously disrupting a thread about low O2 brewing with uninformed negativity, having not actually DONE IT FULLY. I look forward to the days when a lot of people here have tried it and we can debate respectfully on whether or not it makes a damn bit of difference. Because, know what? THAT is progress, this BS is not.

This place is here for the greatest hobby in the world IMO and shouldn't be allowed to sink under its own weight.






 
Jon H.

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #1023 on: January 29, 2017, 02:56:44 AM »
This is a question for those using AA and SMB.  Have you ever noticed any flavor that you would attribute to the ascorbic? 



<Gigantic sigh>   Damn, I go out of town for a day and it goes to hell in a handbasket.  At the risk of stirring a strangely boiling pot, I'm gonna answer this question, only because I have something to offer. I have been using the 45 SMB/45 Ascorbic/10 Brewtan mixture lately in the mash - not exactly a 50/50 mixture, but plenty close. I haven't picked up on any negative character whatsover in the Dunkels, APA or the IPA. Only good beer.

Edit -  I was gonna keep my tongue but nah, that gets old at a certain point, and I'm well beyond pissed.   So.....I couldn't give a fraction of a rat's a$$ who brews how and I don't make judgments (nor should I). But this topic has become the central flashpoint for people, most of which don't really know each other and never will. Constructive, respectful disagreement is healthy and productive for forming solid, informed opinions on brewing. Otherwise is not and is counterproductive.

Here's what I consider NOT constructive or ok on this forum:   

1/  Passionately  posting what I consider to be valid science and improvements to the hobby in a way that gives people the impression that everyone else is making subpar/ shi##y beer. Delivery is big.

2/  Deliberately and very obviously disrupting a thread about low O2 brewing with uninformed negativity, having not actually DONE IT FULLY. I look forward to the days when a lot of people here have tried it and we can debate respectfully on whether or not it makes a damn bit of difference. Because, know what? THAT is progress, this BS is not.

This place is here for the greatest hobby in the world IMO and shouldn't be allowed to sink under its own weight.

Kudos to you Jon for giving it a fair shake.

The line in the sand has been drawn and the moderators here are opposite us and have been very vocal about it. It's now time to step back and let people get there on their own.

Offline Stevie

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #1024 on: January 29, 2017, 03:09:33 AM »
+1 behavior of the mods has been terrible.

Offline natebrews

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #1025 on: January 29, 2017, 03:15:31 AM »
This is a question for those using AA and SMB.  Have you ever noticed any flavor that you would attribute to the ascorbic? 



<Gigantic sigh>   Damn, I go out of town for a day and it goes to hell in a handbasket.  At the risk of stirring a strangely boiling pot, I'm gonna answer this question, only because I have something to offer. I have been using the 45 SMB/45 Ascorbic/10 Brewtan mixture lately in the mash - not exactly a 50/50 mixture, but plenty close. I haven't picked up on any negative character whatsover in the Dunkels, APA or the IPA. Only good beer.

Edit -  I was gonna keep my tongue but nah, that gets old at a certain point, and I'm well beyond pissed.   So.....I couldn't give a fraction of a rat's a$$ who brews how and I don't make judgments (nor should I). But this topic has become the central flashpoint for people, most of which don't really know each other and never will. Constructive, respectful disagreement is healthy and productive for forming solid, informed opinions on brewing. Otherwise is not and is counterproductive.

Here's what I consider NOT constructive or ok on this forum:   

1/  Passionately  posting what I consider to be valid science and improvements to the hobby in a way that gives people the impression that everyone else is making subpar/ shi##y beer. Delivery is big.

2/  Deliberately and very obviously disrupting a thread about low O2 brewing with uninformed negativity, having not actually DONE IT FULLY. I look forward to the days when a lot of people here have tried it and we can debate respectfully on whether or not it makes a damn bit of difference. Because, know what? THAT is progress, this BS is not.

This place is here for the greatest hobby in the world IMO and shouldn't be allowed to sink under its own weight.

Uh, I'm not sure if this was directed at my question about ascorbic or if it is just due to the general stuff that has been happening around the forum.  If it is the former, then I'm only trying to debug my process, since it is the first time I have tried using this one.  If it is the latter, then I agree. 
« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 03:17:14 AM by natebrews »
Risk of failure should be no deterrent to trying.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #1026 on: January 29, 2017, 03:19:19 AM »
This is a question for those using AA and SMB.  Have you ever noticed any flavor that you would attribute to the ascorbic? 



<Gigantic sigh>   Damn, I go out of town for a day and it goes to hell in a handbasket.  At the risk of stirring a strangely boiling pot, I'm gonna answer this question, only because I have something to offer. I have been using the 45 SMB/45 Ascorbic/10 Brewtan mixture lately in the mash - not exactly a 50/50 mixture, but plenty close. I haven't picked up on any negative character whatsover in the Dunkels, APA or the IPA. Only good beer.

Edit -  I was gonna keep my tongue but nah, that gets old at a certain point, and I'm well beyond pissed.   So.....I couldn't give a fraction of a rat's a$$ who brews how and I don't make judgments (nor should I). But this topic has become the central flashpoint for people, most of which don't really know each other and never will. Constructive, respectful disagreement is healthy and productive for forming solid, informed opinions on brewing. Otherwise is not and is counterproductive.

Here's what I consider NOT constructive or ok on this forum:   

1/  Passionately  posting what I consider to be valid science and improvements to the hobby in a way that gives people the impression that everyone else is making subpar/ shi##y beer. Delivery is big.

2/  Deliberately and very obviously disrupting a thread about low O2 brewing with uninformed negativity, having not actually DONE IT FULLY. I look forward to the days when a lot of people here have tried it and we can debate respectfully on whether or not it makes a damn bit of difference. Because, know what? THAT is progress, this BS is not.

This place is here for the greatest hobby in the world IMO and shouldn't be allowed to sink under its own weight.

Uh, I'm not sure if this was directed at my question about ascorbic or if it is just due to the general stuff that has been happening around the forum.  If it is the former, then I'm only trying to debug my process, since it is the first time I have tried using this one.  If it is the latter, then I agree. 


Dude, the first part was directed to you to be helpful. I promise! Sorry!
The latter part was just long simmering venting. Sorry for any confusion.
Jon H.

Offline natebrews

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #1027 on: January 29, 2017, 03:22:47 AM »
That is what I assumed, thanks for the feedback!
Risk of failure should be no deterrent to trying.

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #1028 on: January 29, 2017, 01:36:01 PM »
+1 behavior of the mods has been terrible.

I agree totally. They have been wearing two hats, have engaged in borderline trolling and have allowed full-fledged trolling without intervening. Let's face it folks: low oxygen brewing is dead on this forum. Better stick your questions to things like "should mash thickness in round and square coolers be different? ", "is NE IPA really a new style or can we just continue making fun of it?", or "is it true that Belgians are not allowed to drink dubbels when eating waffles?".
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Big Monk

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #1029 on: January 29, 2017, 01:47:49 PM »
I agree with you guys but let's try and protect this thread from getting shutdown.


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Offline dilluh98

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #1030 on: January 29, 2017, 01:48:14 PM »
To keep things on the positive side regarding low oxygen brewing, I wanted to share some results of a recent dark mild I made.

- 45/45/10 SMB/AA/BtB used in mash only.
- No sparge.
- 80% MO, 16% brown, 4% chocolate malt.
- Mashed at pH = 5.4.

The mash pH was the thing I was really concentrating on here as I've only done lighter beers with low oxygen techniques previously. I hit all my numbers, smooth brew day. The wort though... I've never wanted to drink straight warm wort so much before. It tasted like a well-made mocha from a coffee shop. It was happily fermenting away 3 hours later. Being a mild, I may have to spund within 36 hours.

Offline bjanat

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #1031 on: January 29, 2017, 01:53:20 PM »
+1 behavior of the mods has been terrible.



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Offline natebrews

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #1032 on: January 29, 2017, 01:55:47 PM »
I agree with you guys but let's try and protect this thread from getting shutdown.


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I would like to see this thread (and maybe the Low Oxygen Conclusions thread) continue.  People that are interested in / using the technique should use the threads and others that aren't into it can just ignore them.  I know, that probably won't work out, but it seems like killing off a subject that at least some of us are interested in, is just as much a bad things as having every thread taken over by this subject matter (as some have complained about). 

For me anyway, in the time these threads have existed I have only been able to try it 5 times which is hardly enough time to dial in a new process (for me anyway). 
Risk of failure should be no deterrent to trying.

Offline pete b

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #1033 on: January 29, 2017, 02:15:20 PM »
This is a question for those using AA and SMB.  Have you ever noticed any flavor that you would attribute to the ascorbic? 



<Gigantic sigh>   Damn, I go out of town for a day and it goes to hell in a handbasket.  At the risk of stirring a strangely boiling pot, I'm gonna answer this question, only because I have something to offer. I have been using the 45 SMB/45 Ascorbic/10 Brewtan mixture lately in the mash - not exactly a 50/50 mixture, but plenty close. I haven't picked up on any negative character whatsover in the Dunkels, APA or the IPA. Only good beer.

Edit -  I was gonna keep my tongue but nah, that gets old at a certain point, and I'm well beyond pissed.   So.....I couldn't give a fraction of a rat's a$$ who brews how and I don't make judgments (nor should I). But this topic has become the central flashpoint for people, most of which don't really know each other and never will. Constructive, respectful disagreement is healthy and productive for forming solid, informed opinions on brewing. Otherwise is not and is counterproductive.

Here's what I consider NOT constructive or ok on this forum:   

1/  Passionately  posting what I consider to be valid science and improvements to the hobby in a way that gives people the impression that everyone else is making subpar/ shi##y beer. Delivery is big.

2/  Deliberately and very obviously disrupting a thread about low O2 brewing with uninformed negativity, having not actually DONE IT FULLY. I look forward to the days when a lot of people here have tried it and we can debate respectfully on whether or not it makes a damn bit of difference. Because, know what? THAT is progress, this BS is not.

This place is here for the greatest hobby in the world IMO and shouldn't be allowed to sink under its own weight.
I'm glad you posted this Jon, I think it's spot on.
The low oxygen folks were very combative and secretive and unnecessarily so at first. However, to their credit, they essentially did what was asked and calmed down mostly and started very generously sharing the results of their hard work. I think some never got over the original bad feelings but damn are you really waste energy being mad over this?
I hated the crappy energy that some brought to the forum at first but I'm not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. When I get time I will simply make the same beer my regular way and with,to the best of my ability, low oxygen techniques.
On a positive note I respect that the low oxygen folks changed their tone and stopped being secretive in response to feedback and that many here who were not happy with their attitude tried their techniques anyway.
Don't let the bastards cheer you up.

Offline BrewBama

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Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #1034 on: January 29, 2017, 02:22:50 PM »
I agree. If interested let folks read to learn, if not move to another subject. To be successful, remain agnostic and let the experience you gain speak for itself without insult. In the art of argument, ad hominem is considered a fallacy rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument. IOW: no personal attacks! 


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« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 02:25:30 PM by BrewBama »
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