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Author Topic: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing  (Read 188349 times)

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #135 on: October 24, 2016, 03:38:58 pm »
How does this  short boil jive with Low kilned malts that will supposedly throw DMS if they're not boiled long enough?
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The Beerery

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #136 on: October 24, 2016, 04:36:13 pm »
How does this  short boil jive with Low kilned malts that will supposedly throw DMS if they're not boiled long enough?

Yea you have to be careful. For instance my boil off is 6%,  I need use a 70 minute boil and a higher boil ph( 5:45-5.5( which helps with dms as well).

Offline natebriscoe

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #137 on: October 24, 2016, 08:45:28 pm »
On my setup the rise from Sach Temps to boiling takes 20-30 min (lautering at same time). The majority of that time is 180+ and the dms precursor is converting to dms and there is no boil off. When boiling Temps are reached the lid comes off and out comes a ton of corn aromas. Boil for 60, have yet to detect any dms in the final product.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 09:41:40 pm by natebriscoe »

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #138 on: October 25, 2016, 06:51:56 am »
How does this  short boil jive with Low kilned malts that will supposedly throw DMS if they're not boiled long enough?

Yea you have to be careful. For instance my boil off is 6%,  I need use a 70 minute boil and a higher boil ph( 5:45-5.5( which helps with dms as well).

How does a higher boil pH help mitigate dms formation?

The Beerery

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #139 on: October 25, 2016, 07:06:59 am »
How does this  short boil jive with Low kilned malts that will supposedly throw DMS if they're not boiled long enough?

Yea you have to be careful. For instance my boil off is 6%,  I need use a 70 minute boil and a higher boil ph( 5:45-5.5( which helps with dms as well).



How does a higher boil pH help mitigate dms formation?






There isn't a great deal on the subject, but I can tell you from first hand if I boil at a lower pH say 5.2 and boil for 60 minutes I will have dms, 5.4-5.5 I don't.


The Beerery

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #140 on: October 25, 2016, 07:09:16 am »
On my setup the rise from Sach Temps to boiling takes 20-30 min (lautering at same time). The majority of that time is 180+ and the dms precursor is converting to dms and there is no boil off. When boiling Temps are reached the lid comes off and out comes a ton of corn aromas. Boil for 60, have yet to detect any dms in the final product.

With all my refinements I have concluded that because my system is so tight, I have massive amounts of DMS all the way though 50 minutes of the boil. Its like a light switch is flicked at about 60 minutes, and by 65 its zero.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #141 on: October 25, 2016, 07:25:53 am »
There isn't a great deal on the subject, but I can tell you from first hand if I boil at a lower pH say 5.2 and boil for 60 minutes I will have dms, 5.4-5.5 I don't.


So I assume you drop pH at packaging, or no?
Jon H.

The Beerery

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #142 on: October 25, 2016, 07:28:06 am »
Never at packaging, the yeast do that for me. But I always do a knock out sauergut addition to 5.1 or below.

Offline macbrews

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #143 on: October 25, 2016, 08:01:06 am »
How do add the sauergut?  I have always added it in the mash. Wouldn't that add unwanted starch and husk material into the kettle?


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Big Monk

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Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #144 on: October 25, 2016, 08:16:20 am »
How do add the sauergut?  I have always added it in the mash. Wouldn't that add unwanted starch and husk material into the kettle?


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Bryan's SG has a very nice, bright color. No sediment. Wort leftover from a batch gets fed back into the reactor so it's all Low O2 wort, all the time. No starch or husk issues that I am aware of.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 08:39:19 am by Big Monk »

Offline zwiller

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #145 on: October 25, 2016, 08:32:46 am »
I think your malt choice is still the biggest factor in determining the risk of DMS.  Sounds like the Barke stuff is quite undermodified.  Most all the other malt is a non issue nowadays.  Very interesting tho as it makes perfect sense that LO brewing is tighter and creates a larger DMS risk than non LO (NLO?;D) brewing.  In my mind, we're really splitting hairs since we're comparing a very low simmer of 60m versus a typical more violent boil of 30m where the evap rate is similar (<10%).  I still have to try and find ways to shave time off the brew since I have so little time.  It's not everyday I read something that blows my mind about brewing but the cite about pH and DMS did it... 

I'll let Bryan elaborate on sauergut but suffice to say there have been very interesting work recently about it over at GBF! 
Sam
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Big Monk

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #146 on: October 25, 2016, 08:40:37 am »
Sounds like the Barke stuff is quite undermodified.

I'd say quite the opposite.

The Beerery

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #147 on: October 25, 2016, 08:50:05 am »
I think your malt choice is still the biggest factor in determining the risk of DMS.  Sounds like the Barke stuff is quite undermodified.  Most all the other malt is a non issue nowadays.  Very interesting tho as it makes perfect sense that LO brewing is tighter and creates a larger DMS risk than non LO (NLO?;D) brewing.  In my mind, we're really splitting hairs since we're comparing a very low simmer of 60m versus a typical more violent boil of 30m where the evap rate is similar (<10%).  I still have to try and find ways to shave time off the brew since I have so little time.  It's not everyday I read something that blows my mind about brewing but the cite about pH and DMS did it... 

I'll let Bryan elaborate on sauergut but suffice to say there have been very interesting work recently about it over at GBF!

I will disagree, I have replicated(DMS) , with all weyermann( barke, regular and floor malt), best, avagard, and schill.

Barke MA sheet for reference: http://weyermann.de/pdf_analyses/R205-001360-01.pdf

You have to be careful about the vigorous boil, Reference TBI above.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 08:52:38 am by The Beerery »

The Beerery

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #148 on: October 25, 2016, 08:51:49 am »
How do add the sauergut?  I have always added it in the mash. Wouldn't that add unwanted starch and husk material into the kettle?


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There is a no husk material whatsoever in mine, its a pure culture. If you have ever had a beer ( W) comes to mind, that has fresh boil wort flavor in the finish its from a knockout sauergut addition.

The Beerery

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #149 on: October 25, 2016, 09:07:55 am »
It's not everyday I read something that blows my mind about brewing but the cite about pH and DMS did it... 



You need to get Kunze then, it will blow your mind with every page!
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 09:11:20 am by The Beerery »