[brewinhard]

A few posts back someone asked about vorlaufing if full recirculation is not possible. How does this affect the low DO process and what is the best way to tackle this if need be?

[The Beerery]

A few posts back someone asked about vorlaufing if full recirculation is not possible. How does this affect the low DO process and what is the best way to tackle this if need be?

It's certainly an interesting dilemma. On one hand you have a potential for oxidation and on the other hand you have cloudy lipidy wort. Both have many draw backs. I would voulauf and be gentle with the re-introduction of the wort.

[HoosierBrew]

A few posts back someone asked about vorlaufing if full recirculation is not possible. How does this affect the low DO process and what is the best way to tackle this if need be?

It's certainly an interesting dilemma. On one hand you have a potential for oxidation and on the other hand you have cloudy lipidy wort. Both have many draw backs. I would voulauf and be gentle with the re-introduction of the wort.

That's the lesser of two evils to me in my setup.

[brewinhard]

A few posts back someone asked about vorlaufing if full recirculation is not possible. How does this affect the low DO process and what is the best way to tackle this if need be?

It's certainly an interesting dilemma. On one hand you have a potential for oxidation and on the other hand you have cloudy lipidy wort. Both have many draw backs. I would voulauf and be gentle with the re-introduction of the wort.

That's the lesser of two evils to me in my setup.

For sure, I am just trying to figure out how I can adapt my system to try this out for myself. Trying to think about where the major pitfalls might be and how to work around those.

I typically don't need much vorlaufing for a crystal clear wort, and I can easily add that wort back to the mash without splashing (or very minimal anyway).

[natebrews]

I was just thinking about the vorlauf problem yesterday when I was driving home.  Generally, I run out the wort into a pitcher and then pour it back into the top of the mash.  No matter how gently this is done, it does a lot of surface exchange of the wort with the air.  I usually circulate 1.5 gallons or so of the 4 gallons of liquid in the single infusion strike water.  If I'm no-sparging, then I will recirculate like that and then pump all the remaining hot water in top of the grain bed.  Again, lots of surface exchange of the liquid.

[Big Monk]

I was just thinking about the vorlauf problem yesterday when I was driving home.  Generally, I run out the wort into a pitcher and then pour it back into the top of the mash.  No matter how gently this is done, it does a lot of surface exchange of the wort with the air.  I usually circulate 1.5 gallons or so of the 4 gallons of liquid in the single infusion strike water.  If I'm no-sparging, then I will recirculate like that and then pump all the remaining hot water in top of the grain bed.  Again, lots of surface exchange of the liquid.

A true no-sparge means no additional water added after mash in. You mash with your full volume.

[natebrews]

Yeah, I know...I'm a rebel like that

[brewinhard]

I was just thinking about the vorlauf problem yesterday when I was driving home.  Generally, I run out the wort into a pitcher and then pour it back into the top of the mash.  No matter how gently this is done, it does a lot of surface exchange of the wort with the air.  I usually circulate 1.5 gallons or so of the 4 gallons of liquid in the single infusion strike water.  If I'm no-sparging, then I will recirculate like that and then pump all the remaining hot water in top of the grain bed.  Again, lots of surface exchange of the liquid.

A true no-sparge means no additional water added after mash in. You mash with your full volume.

Yes, but one might still have to carefully vorlauf which could lead to oxygen introduction. Just trying to figure out the best way to pull that off with my system.

[Big Monk]

I was just thinking about the vorlauf problem yesterday when I was driving home.  Generally, I run out the wort into a pitcher and then pour it back into the top of the mash.  No matter how gently this is done, it does a lot of surface exchange of the wort with the air.  I usually circulate 1.5 gallons or so of the 4 gallons of liquid in the single infusion strike water.  If I'm no-sparging, then I will recirculate like that and then pump all the remaining hot water in top of the grain bed.  Again, lots of surface exchange of the liquid.

A true no-sparge means no additional water added after mash in. You mash with your full volume.

Yes, but one might still have to carefully vorlauf which could lead to oxygen introduction. Just trying to figure out the best way to pull that off with my system.

You could approximate the vorlauf by running a pump for a minute or so at the end of the mash and return the liquid to the top of the mash under a cap, keeping the returned wort under the liquid line.

Obviously this is where direct firing and constant recirculation come in handy. Yet doing what is described above definitely doesn't preclude getting clear wort and does not introduce oxygen to the mash.

[beersk]

This might help with your efficiency adjustment, in case you haven't seen it.

No sparge really requires that your process is on point to get great efficiency.

Your crush has to be right, conversion η high and mash losses low.

Conversion can be aided along with proper pH management and recirculation. Lauter η is helped by lower mash losses. Bottom filling and draining is one way to minimize MLT loss.

There is no reason that most can't get 80-90% mash η under the right circumstances. Plus you don't have to sparge!

When you guys talk about no sparge, are you actually doing it full volume, or a modified no sparge where you mash at a normal ratio and then add the remaining volume after mash and drain (or to the kettle)? I've done the latter, never the former.

Full Volume.

I assumed that, or there would be no advantage in terms of O2 uptake. I was always scared of the high water:grain but I'm gonna give it a shot this weekend.

Try to keep it under 3qts/lb.

Let's expand on this. Why keep it under 3qt/lb?

[The Beerery]

This might help with your efficiency adjustment, in case you haven't seen it.

No sparge really requires that your process is on point to get great efficiency.

Your crush has to be right, conversion η high and mash losses low.

Conversion can be aided along with proper pH management and recirculation. Lauter η is helped by lower mash losses. Bottom filling and draining is one way to minimize MLT loss.

There is no reason that most can't get 80-90% mash η under the right circumstances. Plus you don't have to sparge!

When you guys talk about no sparge, are you actually doing it full volume, or a modified no sparge where you mash at a normal ratio and then add the remaining volume after mash and drain (or to the kettle)? I've done the latter, never the former.

Full Volume.

I assumed that, or there would be no advantage in terms of O2 uptake. I was always scared of the high water:grain but I'm gonna give it a shot this weekend.

Try to keep it under 3qts/lb.

Let's expand on this. Why keep it under 3qt/lb?

For sure, So once you start getting above that 3 mark, you will have a hard time getting enough gravity points to make preboil.


Now Kai is assuming 100% efficiency, so you can see the issues if you don't hit that.

[Big Monk]

Let's expand on this. Why keep it under 3qt/lb?

For sure, So once you start getting above that 3 mark, you will have a hard time getting enough gravity points to make preboil.


Now Kai is assuming 100% efficiency, so you can see the issues if you don't hit that.

Just to piggy-back on this, Bryan and I came up with a scheme in the spreadsheet by which we replicate Kai's numbers using actual inputted values in the software. We use an input cell called "Laboratory Extract %" and a table of various extract %s vs. WTG ratios to give accurate no-sparge pre-boil volumes (first wort gravities).

[zwiller]

Remember that if you are dialing back the boil time or intensity you should should be way under 3qts/lb... 

[Philbrew]

Sulfite test strips...how many should I need, what kind and where do I get them?

[Stevie]

Remember that if you are dialing back the boil time or intensity you should should be way under 3qts/lb...

Not necessarily if you are brewing a very low gravity beer.