Author Topic: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing  (Read 66585 times)

Offline narvin

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2016, 06:12:03 PM »


I also noticed less darkening of the wort during boil.  My kettle pH was 5.2, lower than normal 5.3-5.35, so I don't know how much is attributable to that.  If I did more rigorous test I'd look at the color of first runnings.


The lower pH is 100% the cause of the SMB. At that dose rate you used you are at about .1 reduction.  However, I don't think you will see a color reduction from pH alone, well not in that range anyway. How was the flavor of the wort?

The wort was smooth.  There was an excellent break, which I've had before when lowering pH, but not always.    This fest bier was on the low end of IBUs so I didn't expect a harshness but it definitely seemed like any possible polyphenol harshness was minimized.  So far, so good.

What's your doing rate of the Polyclar?  Recommended is 15g/hL or about 3grams/5G.

I started slightly lower, maybe 4.5 grams per 10 gallons.  I'm willing to try more, although that stuff isn't cheap.
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2016, 06:40:50 PM »


I also noticed less darkening of the wort during boil.  My kettle pH was 5.2, lower than normal 5.3-5.35, so I don't know how much is attributable to that.  If I did more rigorous test I'd look at the color of first runnings.



The lower pH is 100% the cause of the SMB. At that dose rate you used you are at about .1 reduction.  However, I don't think you will see a color reduction from pH alone, well not in that range anyway. How was the flavor of the wort?

The wort was smooth.  There was an excellent break, which I've had before when lowering pH, but not always.    This fest bier was on the low end of IBUs so I didn't expect a harshness but it definitely seemed like any possible polyphenol harshness was minimized.  So far, so good.

What's your doing rate of the Polyclar?  Recommended is 15g/hL or about 3grams/5G.

I started slightly lower, maybe 4.5 grams per 10 gallons.  I'm willing to try more, although that stuff isn't cheap.

Nor easy to work with, did you have it on the stir plate for a minimum of 1hr?

Offline zwiller

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2016, 06:57:25 PM »
I started slightly lower, maybe 4.5 grams per 10 gallons.  I'm willing to try more, although that stuff isn't cheap.
I hear ya but hope that changes. 

Do remember the dosage is based on the brew.  Higher ABV and hoppy need more.  I am like 6g for 5G on IIPA.  You'll know if you're using enough tho, the clarity is pretty obvious. 

1hr stir plate?  New to me.  My info says to simply rehydrate cool liquid to avoid clumping and use 10m prior to KO/I do half way into whirlpool.   Mfr Rep (Ashland) also confirmed.  Interested tho.  Honestly, I love the stuff. 
Sam
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2016, 07:02:51 PM »
I started slightly lower, maybe 4.5 grams per 10 gallons.  I'm willing to try more, although that stuff isn't cheap.
I hear ya but hope that changes. 

Do remember the dosage is based on the brew.  Higher ABV and hoppy need more.  I am like 6g for 5G on IIPA.  You'll know if you're using enough tho, the clarity is pretty obvious. 

1hr stir plate?  New to me.  My info says to simply rehydrate cool liquid to avoid clumping and use 10m prior to KO/I do half way into whirlpool.   Mfr Rep (Ashland) also confirmed.  Interested tho.  Honestly, I love the stuff.

My rep told me differently, but maybe because I used it cold side. My method:
boil @ 2 cups of distilled water for 3-4 minutes to remove O2 and to sanitize the water. Cool water below 80F. Take an 8 ounce Kerr canning jar (clean and sanitized) and add 10-15 grams of PVPP and a sanitized stir bar.

Add the cooled water so the water completely fills the jar (the water will be slightly above the rim) and let the air come out of the PVPP. This takes a minute or so as the PVPP absorbs the water. As the air comes out, add water if necessary. Place the cap on jar, this should force the excess water out of the jar (the water will be slightly over the top of the lid due to water tension). This will remove nearly all air from the jar and prevent O2 from getting into your beer.

Put on stir plate for @ 90 minutes. The PVPP needs to be in "aquauous suspension", which means that none of the tiny beads should be stuck together. Mixing it in with a stir plate does this.

Tip the Kerr jar upside down so the stir bar sticks to the lid, add to beer, mix thoroughly. PVPP works best when it's mixed in well.

Offline zwiller

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Sam
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2016, 08:55:38 PM »
I think I need to back up and ask, what your wort looks like. I will post some pictures of my wort a various stages. I do add whirlfloc but that is the only clearing agent I add in my whole process.

So here is mash:


Preboil:


Boiling:


Post boil:(slight condensation here since the wort is at 40F)



Finished:




« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 08:57:15 PM by The Beerery »

Offline dilluh98

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2016, 09:08:54 PM »
If I mash in a cooler but don't use any pumps, is it worth the effort to gravity feed the boiled/SMBd strike water into the bed of the grains (basically jamming the silicon tubing down to the base of the cooler through the grain bed) versus just carefully pouring/ladling the strike water on top of the grains maybe with some CO2 pumped on top while I do this?

Offline narvin

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2016, 09:10:20 PM »
Going in at 5 mins to the end of the boil, I just rehdrated briefly in water and stirred a bit.

My interested was piqued both by zwiller and reading on the aussie forums about BrewBrite, which was basically carageenan and pvpp.

Again, looking to prevent polyphenols that would require a long lagering time from making it into the keg.  I would much prefer the ease of use on the hot side, which is why I tried it there first.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 09:13:09 PM by narvin »
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2016, 09:18:11 PM »
If I mash in a cooler but don't use any pumps, is it worth the effort to gravity feed the boiled/SMBd strike water into the bed of the grains (basically jamming the silicon tubing down to the base of the cooler through the grain bed) versus just carefully pouring/ladling the strike water on top of the grains maybe with some CO2 pumped on top while I do this?

If I need to move water in a pinch, I use a decoction ladle(4qt) and use an easy transfer method of just slowly submerging the ladle and tipping it. No splash, very little uptake.

Offline macbrews

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2016, 09:18:19 PM »
What is the thought process of limiting the boil losses to 10%? Why wouldn't a more vigorous boil devoid the wort of any remaining O2?

Also, if I had a few extra bucks burning a hole in my pocket, which DO meters would be good choices?


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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2016, 09:23:39 PM »
What is the thought process of limiting the boil losses to 10%? Why wouldn't a more vigorous boil devoid the wort of any remaining O2?

Also, if I had a few extra bucks burning a hole in my pocket, which DO meters would be good choices?


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No, wort can't hold any oxygen at 100c, so therefore it is of no use to boil hard to get rid of oxygen. Be very cautious about the TBI(thiobarbituric acid index) boogey man in regards to heat stress. You do not want to pick up any more maillard coloring than you need too as it will hurt the beers flavor.

I use an Extech do600.

Offline dilluh98

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2016, 09:26:25 PM »
If I mash in a cooler but don't use any pumps, is it worth the effort to gravity feed the boiled/SMBd strike water into the bed of the grains (basically jamming the silicon tubing down to the base of the cooler through the grain bed) versus just carefully pouring/ladling the strike water on top of the grains maybe with some CO2 pumped on top while I do this?

If I need to move water in a pinch, I use a decoction ladle(4qt) and use an easy transfer method of just slowly submerging the ladle and tipping it. No splash, very little uptake.

Thanks - I'd taken to that practice early on in brewing as I don't like lifting a whole pot of strike water to dump.

Offline zwiller

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2016, 09:36:50 PM »
First off, nice pics.  I think that is pretty good looking wort!  When using Polyclar Brewbrite (yep, whirlfloc and polyclar together) the finished wort resembles finished beer.  It is that bright.  If it's not, you are not using enough.  Not saying you need it, but would encourage you to try it hot side once and see if you like it since the cold procedure looks to be quite involved.  My Ashland Rep says once brewers use it (hot side), they no longer filter.
Sam
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Offline techbrau

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2016, 09:40:51 PM »
What is the thought process of limiting the boil losses to 10%? Why wouldn't a more vigorous boil devoid the wort of any remaining O2?

Also, if I had a few extra bucks burning a hole in my pocket, which DO meters would be good choices?


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No, wort can't hold any oxygen at 100c, so therefore it is of no use to boil hard to get rid of oxygen. Be very cautious about the TBI(thiobarbituric acid index) boogey man in regards to heat stress. You do not want to pick up any more maillard coloring than you need too as it will hurt the beers flavor.

I use an Extech do600.

Oxygen can and will still react with the wort at the air/liquid interface, and the reactions at boiling temperature happen on the order of thousands of times faster than they do at room temperature. More rolling means more surface area of the wort exposed to the air.

What is the thought process of limiting the boil losses to 10%? Why wouldn't a more vigorous boil devoid the wort of any remaining O2?
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It is not about getting oxygen out of the mash/boil, it is about keeping it out. Once it's in the wort, it's too late. The damaging oxidative reactions happen on the order of 30 seconds to 1 minute according to Kunze.

Here are some of my experiences with heat stress:

http://forum.germanbrewing.net/viewtopic.php?t=440

For anybody trying the low oxygen process, I really recommend tasting the wort during the mash and at mashout because it will give you an idea of what low oxygen wort is supposed to taste like. I find that it tastes very similar to chewing on raw malt kernels, but sweeter and more intense overall. By comparison, normal wort tastes more like diluted LME.

If your post boil wort doesn't have the fresh grain flavor that you had in the mash, you probably lost it by boiling too hard.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 09:46:01 PM by techbrau »

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2016, 10:01:00 PM »
Wow, that doesn't look fun but it does make sense for LO cold side.  Honestly, once I tried hot side, I was hooked.  The paper that got me started: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwijhJOxjeXPAhUCLyYKHbIbBlgQFghSMAk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmicro-report.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FISP_007_Stabilization_of_Beer_with_Polyclar_Brewbrite.pdf&usg=AFQjCNELOzelDM2MzmKFrOLXORBcfh3jag



I am gonna try using Brewbrite in boil as well. I have some coming from ibrew along with some more Brewtan. So I guess my brewing process is in flux. Gonna try low O2 with SMB (to the extent my brewery will allow), use Brewtan for metal chelation and packaging protection, and use Brewbrite at 10. What the final process ends up being remains to be seen. Gonna tinker until I find the optimum combo and process.
Jon H.