[brewinhard]

Wow, that doesn't look fun but it does make sense for LO cold side.  Honestly, once I tried hot side, I was hooked.  The paper that got me started: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwijhJOxjeXPAhUCLyYKHbIbBlgQFghSMAk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmicro-report.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FISP_007_Stabilization_of_Beer_with_Polyclar_Brewbrite.pdf&usg=AFQjCNELOzelDM2MzmKFrOLXORBcfh3jag

 Gonna tinker until I find the optimum combo and process.

This is what I see myself doing as well. At least until i upgrade my crappy ass brew system and learn more about this low DO process.

[hopfenundmalz]

I have to ask, what do people think of the small, traditional, family owned places that don't have systems that de-oxegenate the water, or have copper in the process, Lots of copper sometimes.

In the last 12 months I have spent 1.5 months traveling in Germany. Some fond memories of drinking excellent beers were made. I will say that the styles were not Munich Helles.

[The Beerery]

Jeff- Full disclosure I only like the German "macro"brew lagers. Ayinger, W, Bitburger and the like. All of the beers turned out by these breweries exhibit low oxygen brewing methods in spades. One of my fellow colleagues(Tech) was recently in country and said many of the beers from the smaller places were very American like in flavors( I don't want to speak for him or put words in his mouth). I hope he jumps in and comments. 

[hopfenundmalz]

Jeff- Full disclosure I only like the German "macro"brew lagers. Ayinger, W, Bitburger and the like. All of the beers turned out by these breweries exhibit low oxygen brewing methods in spades. One of my fellow colleagues(Tech) was recently in country and said many of the beers from the smaller places were very American like in flavors( I don't want to speak for him or put words in his mouth). I hope he jumps in and comments.

There are some good Dunkels made on basic systems, do darker malts help?

Hoppy beers such as the Helles and Lagerbier in Franconia seem to be very süffig. Do the hops cover the lack of IT up? Yeasty Keller/Zwickel biers too.

The Uerige Altbier in Duesseldorf is exposed to a lot of O2 in the cooling steps. It is conditioned in wooden kegs, and doesn't have a chance to get stale due to high turnover.

I did really enjoy the Helles at  Schönram and Ayinger. Loved the Kellerbier at Schönram.

[mabrungard]

True Jeff, but the Uerige example strongly typifies the problems with oxygen contact. You recall that trip that my clubmates took to Germany last summer and they brought back very fresh bottles of Uerige. They were all showing staling and oxidation a week later when I tasted them.

But this brings up something I put forward a couple of months ago regarding oxidation. LODO is NOT appropriate for all beer styles. I still say that some styles need that oxidation during their creation in order to produce the proper and desirable taste profile.

[hopfenundmalz]

True Jeff, but the Uerige example strongly typifies the problems with oxygen contact. You recall that trip that my clubmates took to Germany last summer and they brought back very fresh bottles of Uerige. They were all showing staling and oxidation a week later when I tasted them.

But this brings up something I put forward a couple of months ago regarding oxidation. LODO is NOT appropriate for all beer styles. I still say that some styles need that oxidation during their creation in order to produce the proper and desirable taste profile.

High turnover at the pub from wooden (and some SS kegs) makes for a fresh Altbier. The bottles, not so much. I know, I have carried those back a couple of times, didn't bother this time.

[The Beerery]

Right I have had my share of Soy sauce and Kibble Zum's.

If you want to replicate a true beer, I will be the first one to tell you, you have to follow the source. But I will say in the same breath that if Zum, decided to ever go modern, the beer would 10x better 

[narvin]

Right I have had my share of Soy sauce and Kibble Zum's.

If you want to replicate a true beer, I will be the first one to tell you, you have to follow the source. But I will say in the same breath that if Zum, decided to ever go modern, the beer would 10x better 

Don't disagree.  The one place where I think it may make a difference is Belgium.  The amount of copper is staggering.  And my hommelbier from last fall, step mashed with a copper herms coil for 90 minutes, is still great in bottles a year later despite the fact that obvious oxidation changes have happened.

But, I totally agree that a homebrew scale allows much more oxygen ingress in general.  So even if I keep the copper, I can see trying some kind of lodo/brewtan combination for those beers.  I plan to do it for a NEIPA next.  No, not an oat/yeast/chloride bomb... more of a Trillium clone, which is none of those.

[zwiller]

Wow, that doesn't look fun but it does make sense for LO cold side.  Honestly, once I tried hot side, I was hooked.  The paper that got me started: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwijhJOxjeXPAhUCLyYKHbIbBlgQFghSMAk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmicro-report.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FISP_007_Stabilization_of_Beer_with_Polyclar_Brewbrite.pdf&usg=AFQjCNELOzelDM2MzmKFrOLXORBcfh3jag

I am gonna try using Brewbrite in boil as well. I have some coming from ibrew along with some more Brewtan. So I guess my brewing process is in flux. Gonna try low O2 with SMB (to the extent my brewery will allow), use Brewtan for metal chelation and packaging protection, and use Brewbrite at 10. What the final process ends up being remains to be seen. Gonna tinker until I find the optimum combo and process.

It's all about finding what works for YOUR process and YOUR beers.  In my case as a hop head, I saw parallels about polyphenols > astringency and the efficacy of polyclar with that, went with my gut, and it works well.  In the spirit of this thread, polyclar is RHB compliant, whereas, Brewtan is not.   

[HoosierBrew]

So even if I keep the copper, I can see trying some kind of lodo/brewtan combination for those beers.

That's my plan, too.

[Stevie]

So even if I keep the copper, I can see trying some kind of lodo/brewtan combination for those beers.

That's my plan, too.

Same. Looking to try a few things, but won't be buying any new equipment until I am ready to build out my electric or NG system.

[Big Monk]

Wow, that doesn't look fun but it does make sense for LO cold side.  Honestly, once I tried hot side, I was hooked.  The paper that got me started: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwijhJOxjeXPAhUCLyYKHbIbBlgQFghSMAk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmicro-report.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FISP_007_Stabilization_of_Beer_with_Polyclar_Brewbrite.pdf&usg=AFQjCNELOzelDM2MzmKFrOLXORBcfh3jag

I am gonna try using Brewbrite in boil as well. I have some coming from ibrew along with some more Brewtan. So I guess my brewing process is in flux. Gonna try low O2 with SMB (to the extent my brewery will allow), use Brewtan for metal chelation and packaging protection, and use Brewbrite at 10. What the final process ends up being remains to be seen. Gonna tinker until I find the optimum combo and process.

It's all about finding what works for YOUR process and YOUR beers.  In my case as a hop head, I saw parallels about polyphenols > astringency and the efficacy of polyclar with that, went with my gut, and it works well.  In the spirit of this thread, polyclar is RHB compliant, whereas, Brewtan is not.   

Just to clarify, Polyclar is compliant in RHG because is can be 100% filtered. If I'm not mistaken.

[The Beerery]

Wow, that doesn't look fun but it does make sense for LO cold side.  Honestly, once I tried hot side, I was hooked.  The paper that got me started: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwijhJOxjeXPAhUCLyYKHbIbBlgQFghSMAk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmicro-report.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FISP_007_Stabilization_of_Beer_with_Polyclar_Brewbrite.pdf&usg=AFQjCNELOzelDM2MzmKFrOLXORBcfh3jag

I am gonna try using Brewbrite in boil as well. I have some coming from ibrew along with some more Brewtan. So I guess my brewing process is in flux. Gonna try low O2 with SMB (to the extent my brewery will allow), use Brewtan for metal chelation and packaging protection, and use Brewbrite at 10. What the final process ends up being remains to be seen. Gonna tinker until I find the optimum combo and process.

It's all about finding what works for YOUR process and YOUR beers.  In my case as a hop head, I saw parallels about polyphenols > astringency and the efficacy of polyclar with that, went with my gut, and it works well.  In the spirit of this thread, polyclar is RHB compliant, whereas, Brewtan is not.   

Just to clarify, Polyclar is compliant in RHG because is can be 100% filtered. If I'm not mistaken.

Yea in the german brew house, PVPP is added on the cold side, right before filtering.

[Philbrew]

Metals in contact with the mash and wort. 
Iron = bad.
SS = OK.
Copper = maybe bad, maybe correctable with Brewtan.
What about aluminum?

[bboy9000]

Metals in contact with the mash and wort. 
Iron = bad.
SS = OK.
Copper = maybe bad, maybe correctable with Brewtan.
What about aluminum?

Anyone know about aluminum? It's probably not used much in commercial breweries which is the inspiration for LODO so maybe there isn't much readily available info on aluminum.  Aluminum produces an oxide layer but it prevents the aluminum fro acting further