Author Topic: The Beerery's Sauegut Reactor  (Read 2692 times)

Offline The Beerery

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Re: The Beerery's Sauegut Reactor
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2016, 09:30:22 PM »
Maybe I'm the only one...but part of me wants to try this approach to control the pH on a Dry Irish Stout?  :D
Isn't that how's Guinness is rumored to do it?

Yup!

Offline Stevie

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Re: The Beerery's Sauegut Reactor
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2016, 09:50:51 PM »
All of the rumors I've seen say it is a separate sour mashed wort that is added post main mash. Again, rumors. I've also seen denials.

Maybe it was more to combat the high RA from the hard water. It could easily have been a technique of the past as more water treatment is done these days.

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: The Beerery's Sauegut Reactor
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2016, 10:25:42 PM »

Sorry, I was speaking of the amount of sauergut added (2l). Kunze is pretty adamant that mineral acid ( 88%) is a last resort, and he isn't a RHG elitist.

Umm Benefits off the top of my head:

More oxidation reduction power
Better enzyme actions
Better extract yield
More zinc( healthier and faster fermentations)
Probiotics( digestibility and nutritional value)
Shorter mash times
Inhibits lox ( the major staling enzyme)
Flavor enhancement (source of grape flavors in the beers)

I think one of the book pages above lists most of them.

Whatever microorganisms are added pre-boil is killed in the boil. If your post-boil addition is pre-chilling then you're killing off whatever is alive at the stage unless you are able to chill at a truly rapid speed.
Heck yeah I blog about homebrewing: Brain Sparging on Brewing

Offline brewinhard

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Re: The Beerery's Sauegut Reactor
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2016, 11:18:09 PM »
This is really cool Bryan. Thanks for sharing your process with SG production.

Albeit it seems like quite a bit of work, but if one has the desire and time for it, then I could see how the benefits of homemade SG (not lactic acid from a bottle) could get you even closer to the real deal.

I most definitely have noticed differences when fermenting worts with straight lacto (in terms of flavor/aroma/acidity) compared to beers I have tried to dose with bottled lactic acid. The bottled products almost gives me some fake buttery notes to the beer (diacetyl) that I simply did not care for.


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Re: The Beerery's Sauegut Reactor
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2016, 02:30:33 AM »
Maybe I'm the only one...but part of me wants to try this approach to control the pH on a Dry Irish Stout?  :D
Isn't that how's Guinness is rumored to do it?

Yup!

Nope! Guinness does not sour their dark wort. Their water is almost Pilsen quality.

You might benefit from reading Zymurgy someday.
Martin B
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Offline Stevie

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Re: The Beerery's Sauegut Reactor
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2016, 02:34:40 AM »
Maybe I'm the only one...but part of me wants to try this approach to control the pH on a Dry Irish Stout?  :D
Isn't that how's Guinness is rumored to do it?

Yup!

Nope! Guinness does not sour their dark wort. Their water is almost Pilsen quality.

You might benefit from reading Zymurgy someday.
Martin, any thoughts on the origin or the rumor?

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: The Beerery's Sauegut Reactor
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2016, 02:44:31 AM »
IIRC per Martin, Guinness mashes pale malt at proper pH, then blends with the dark malt wort that is mashed/steeped with no attempt to raise pH. Resulting in the slight twang Guinness is known for. That, or it's just a damn good homebrew recipe.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 02:52:03 AM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

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Re: The Beerery's Sauegut Reactor
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2016, 03:57:38 AM »
You might benefit from reading Zymurgy someday.

You mean people actually read zymurgy?

Offline Stevie

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The Beerery's Sauegut Reactor
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2016, 05:11:14 AM »
You might benefit from reading Zymurgy someday.

You mean people actually read zymurgy?
Every two months I have that moment of excitement when the new zymurgy arrives in my mailbox. I hurry into the bathroom itching to smell that virgin paper and ink. Every time I'm hoping for hot young coeds. But no, just a bunch of old bearded guys with bellies talking about beer. Someday... someday.

But seriously, be cool. There are many contributors that are active members on this forum, including Martin and his great water articles. Don't like it, start your own Zine at the corner copy shop.

ETA - You could submit your own article as well. I know they pay.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 05:16:37 AM by Stevie »

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Re: The Beerery's Sauegut Reactor
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2016, 11:06:42 AM »
I'll put the in next time so there is no confusion.

Offline The Beerery

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Re: The Beerery's Sauegut Reactor
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2016, 11:09:06 AM »
Maybe I'm the only one...but part of me wants to try this approach to control the pH on a Dry Irish Stout?  :D
Isn't that how's Guinness is rumored to do it?

Yup!

Nope! Guinness does not sour their dark wort. Their water is almost Pilsen quality.

You might benefit from reading Zymurgy someday.


FWIW. My YUP was to trying sauergut to use on a dark beer as I use it for all my pH needs

Online mabrungard

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Re: The Beerery's Sauegut Reactor
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2016, 03:32:14 PM »
Martin, any thoughts on the origin or the rumor?

It was a reasonable assumption.

Guinness was long known to deliver their dark Guinness Flavor Extract to their other breweries, so everyone knew that this was an important component. The thing that I believe confused the typical homebrewer was that people thought that Dublin water was very hard and alkaline. While that is true in some parts of the city, its not true in the part that the St James Gate brewery is. Their water runs off the granitic Wicklow Mountains and it is almost devoid of mineralization and alkalinity.

Mixing roast barley with a highly alkaline water would not result in a very low pH wort. But mixing roast barley with what amounts to RO or distilled water, results in a wort pH that hovers around 4.5. If you assumed that the Guinness water source was alkaline, you would have to assume that there was some sort of souring action in order for that dark extract to have a low pH. But the reality is that their process and result is much simpler than that. Guinness' recipe of barley malt, raw barley, and roast barley create a very complimentary flavor when the pH of the overall beer is depressed by that GFE addition. They do mash the pale components in a separate mash and combine the worts later.

The simple work-around for brewing an excellent dry stout is to use RO water and hold the roast barley out of the main mash. You then add the ground roast barley at the end of the mash where it adds the color and drives the wort pH down. It is a very effective technique and I and many others have found it to produce a very authentic result.
Martin B
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Offline zwiller

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Re: The Beerery's Sauegut Reactor
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2016, 05:19:27 PM »
I gotta say that my dark beer strategy (mashing higher pH) would really work well with a kettle GS addition to emulate but honestly I prefer Murphy/Beamish sans twang.   If I was chasing the holy grail of Guinness I would make SG except use roasted barley in place of acid to get pH down to 4.5, thus creating your own GFE. 

Has the redox potential of SG been measured or studied yet?  I am hoping to use it in place of the other redox strategies but suspect the process is much slower.
Sam
Sandusky, OH

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Re: The Beerery's Sauegut Reactor
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2016, 08:14:40 PM »
I gotta say that my dark beer strategy (mashing higher pH) would really work well with a kettle GS addition to emulate but honestly I prefer Murphy/Beamish sans twang.   If I was chasing the holy grail of Guinness I would make SG except use roasted barley in place of acid to get pH down to 4.5, thus creating your own GFE. 

Has the redox potential of SG been measured or studied yet?  I am hoping to use it in place of the other redox strategies but suspect the process is much slower.

Bryan just did an experiment to get empirical values for redox. I'm not sure he's formalized it yet.

Offline The Beerery

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Re: The Beerery's Sauegut Reactor
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2016, 11:46:12 PM »

Has the redox potential of SG been measured or studied yet?  I am hoping to use it in place of the other redox strategies but suspect the process is much slower.

It has. Sorry been busy with other things I have the data just no post yet.  The short answer is there is a small amount. But not nearly enough to say get rid of any antioxidants in the mash. It could maybe drop you 10-20ppm on your SMB dose.