Author Topic: water suggestions for german pils?  (Read 1306 times)

Offline gman23

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water suggestions for german pils?
« on: October 31, 2016, 03:02:18 PM »
Planning on yellow bitter profile with mash pH approaching 5.2. Any advice?
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Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: water suggestions for german pils?
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2016, 03:11:41 PM »
Sounds about right to me. I haven't used that water profile seems fitting. I'm not advocating it but something I have seem common after listening to several of BN podcasts on the CYBI show where they talk to the brewers about the beers and recipes they are trying to brew is I hear a target mash ph of 5.4 mentioned a lot for hoppy beers. I understand a German Pils is bitter, not hoppy but just something that came to mind. Not to get side tracked here but I wonder if there is reason Firestone Walker and Lagunitas both target 5.4 and even higher for Lagunitas when they brew their IPA.

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: water suggestions for german pils?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2016, 03:27:11 PM »
So what will the overall water profile look like?  What are the ppm numbers for Ca, Mg, Na, Cl, SO4 and bicarb?  I make a lot of gold lagers and I personally don't care for a lot of sulfate in a beer like that.  Some amount is fine and you're going to get bitterness from your hops... a good charge of hops plus a big dose of sulfate can be chalky in a beer like this.  Just thinking out loud.

Offline gman23

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Re: water suggestions for german pils?
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2016, 03:43:05 PM »
according to bru'n water:
Ca: 69
Mg: 7
Na: 14
SO4: 105
Cl: 45
bicarb: -89 (I am a beginner with water so this is something I have never really paid attention to)

mash pH 5.25
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 03:53:49 PM by goschman »
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: water suggestions for german pils?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2016, 03:46:55 PM »
I personally run a house water. That water is what all my beers are brewed with. I agree with Ken, I hate too much sulfate in the water. For instance my sulfate is 35, its going to soften the hops. Stay away from all bicarb(if possible) in pale lagers.

Offline gman23

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Re: water suggestions for german pils?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2016, 03:51:28 PM »
I personally run a house water. That water is what all my beers are brewed with. I agree with Ken, I hate too much sulfate in the water. For instance my sulfate is 35, its going to soften the hops. Stay away from all bicarb(if possible) in pale lagers.

Thank you. My untreated water has sulfate of 33.
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Offline denny

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Re: water suggestions for german pils?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2016, 04:04:30 PM »
I use the boiled Jever profile in mine.  I love sulfate.
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Offline gman23

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Re: water suggestions for german pils?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2016, 04:17:55 PM »
I use the boiled Jever profile in mine.  I love sulfate.

I was considering that as well.
On Tap/Bottled: Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager, Dry Hopped Peach Cider       

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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: water suggestions for german pils?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2016, 04:29:04 PM »
It's definitely a personal preference.  My water has 27ppm of SO4 in it and for gold lagers I generally leave it alone and raise my chloride a bit.  I understand that a German Pils should have its crispness factor but I seem to be able to get plenty of that with the small amount of SO4 that I already have plus the hops I use.  I can't say that I have ever had my SO4 as high as 105ppm for a beer like this but that doesn't mean it can't work.  The pH looks great and as long as you neutralize the bicarb with an acid (or whatever you use), you shouldn't have to worry about the bicarbonate.  One thing to consider... when I have been in doubt about things like this, I have undershot whatever ingredient I was thinking about (sulfate in this case) knowing that I could add more if I needed to.  It's not ideal but I have boiled water with some amount of calcium chloride or calcium sulfate and added it directly to the keg (Bryan, shield your eyes to avoid O2-pickup ideas) and have successfully adjusted a beer.  So if you used say, the "yellow balanced" water profile, it might be just right but if it's not, boil a small amount of water and add another 1-2 grams of gypsum, add it to the keg and boom... more sulfate.  Basically it comes down to "you can add more of something but it's tough to remove it". 
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 04:30:58 PM by Village Taphouse »

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: water suggestions for german pils?
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2016, 04:32:13 PM »
I just did a German pils with 75ppm SO4, 50ppm Chloride that was very tasty. Dry and crisp, hops accentuated, without a minerally bite.
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: water suggestions for german pils?
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2016, 04:57:33 PM »
How do you guys typically mash a beer like this?  I might do a Hochkurz (30x145 and 60x158 or so) or I might just do a single-infusion at 150° which on my system creates a relatively dry beer.  I find that I can get the beer to finish dry with that type of mash and I can get bitterness with hops while leaving the sulfate lower.  Pale ales, ESBs, ambers, etc. get more sulfate.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: water suggestions for german pils?
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2016, 05:04:06 PM »
I like Kai's Pils water. Yeah it has sulfate, finishes dry and crisp, in the Northern style, just as I like it.

Use the very soft for what you would get for a Pils from Oberbayern (Munich and surrounding area).

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Various_water_recipes
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: water suggestions for german pils?
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2016, 05:32:02 PM »
How do you guys typically mash a beer like this?  I might do a Hochkurz (30x145 and 60x158 or so) or I might just do a single-infusion at 150° which on my system creates a relatively dry beer


If it's Hochkurz, 145/45 162/45. A single at 150/80-90 mins works pretty well IMO.
Jon H.

Offline denny

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Re: water suggestions for german pils?
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2016, 05:58:01 PM »
How do you guys typically mash a beer like this?  I might do a Hochkurz (30x145 and 60x158 or so) or I might just do a single-infusion at 150° which on my system creates a relatively dry beer.  I find that I can get the beer to finish dry with that type of mash and I can get bitterness with hops while leaving the sulfate lower.  Pale ales, ESBs, ambers, etc. get more sulfate.

148 single infusion for 90 min.
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Offline gman23

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Re: water suggestions for german pils?
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2016, 06:25:25 PM »
Thanks all.

I will probably keep the sulfate but drop it closer to 75 or so.

I am just doing a single infusion mash. Any recommendations on pH? Should i just keep around 5.4?
On Tap/Bottled: Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager, Dry Hopped Peach Cider       

Fermenting: Imperial Porter, Hopfenbier
Up Next: Maibock, Braunbier