Great. Thanks to both of you for that and yes reverseapachemasster, Redds has some kind of apple additive not any actual juice, or that's what I've gathered at least. JJeffers09, love your Franklin quote! Thanks again guys! I think I'll go for a Graf. Really stupid question, apple juice and apple cider, I was going to use cider, does that change anything or just treat it as such (juice).