[Indy574]

I will probably clear the cupboard of old sugars.

[steveg297]

Do you have the option of adding DME, LME or honey? I'm not a fan of adding simple sugar to increase alcohol.

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Why not?

I prefer the flavor and complexity of LME, DME and honey added after 2/3 of the fermentation is completed. I've used sugar in the past and gotten cidery flavors that I don't care for. Just my opinion.

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[steveg297]

Do you have the option of adding DME, LME or honey? I'm not a fan of adding simple sugar to increase alcohol.

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I am.  Why waste the money on honey when you won't get anything from it but the sugar content, particularly if added to the boil?  DME and LME add more than just fermentable sugar.  Not a problem if that's what you want, but it doesn't sound like he does.

If sugar works for you, that's great. He's trying to free up room in his mash tun and I was suggesting other options if  they're available.  Both  LME and DME will add to the complexity as well as the alcohol level and honey added toward the end of fermentation will add alcohol and contribute flavor.

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[Joe Sr.]

Do you have the option of adding DME, LME or honey? I'm not a fan of adding simple sugar to increase alcohol.

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I am.  Why waste the money on honey when you won't get anything from it but the sugar content, particularly if added to the boil?  DME and LME add more than just fermentable sugar.  Not a problem if that's what you want, but it doesn't sound like he does.

If sugar works for you, that's great. He's trying to free up room in his mash tun and I was suggesting other options if  they're available.  Both  LME and DME will add to the complexity as well as the alcohol level and honey added toward the end of fermentation will add alcohol and contribute flavor.

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That's a fair point.  I have no argument against using DME/LME to boost a beer that's too big for the mash tun.  You do have to be careful though, especially with a big beer, that it doesn't end up with too many unfermentables.  I would still recommend using sugar for a portion of the addition, but it doesn't need to be all of it.

As far as LME/DME, my recommendation would be to add Breiss Pils DME.  It's the lightest and most fermentable extract I have come across.  I haven't used LME in ages.

[Stevie]

For me, I would add a pound of sugar to aid dryness and avoid a sweet or overly malty beer. If I needed to makeup a large amount of gravity points, I'd use DME and sugar in a 2:3 ratio. Too much extract will leave way too many unfermentables.

[steveg297]

Do you have the option of adding DME, LME or honey? I'm not a fan of adding simple sugar to increase alcohol.

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I am.  Why waste the money on honey when you won't get anything from it but the sugar content, particularly if added to the boil?  DME and LME add more than just fermentable sugar.  Not a problem if that's what you want, but it doesn't sound like he does.

If sugar works for you, that's great. He's trying to free up room in his mash tun and I was suggesting other options if  they're available.  Both  LME and DME will add to the complexity as well as the alcohol level and honey added toward the end of fermentation will add alcohol and contribute flavor.

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That's a fair point.  I have no argument against using DME/LME to boost a beer that's too big for the mash tun.  You do have to be careful though, especially with a big beer, that it doesn't end up with too many unfermentables.  I would still recommend using sugar for a portion of the addition, but it doesn't need to be all of it.

As far as LME/DME, my recommendation would be to add Breiss Pils DME.  It's the lightest and most fermentable extract I have come across.  I haven't used LME in ages.

There are other questions too; what is the batch size, how many lbs. of grain, what is the final OG expected with the malt on hand? I'm not saying that you can't brew a good beer when you add sugar, but I wouldn't go more than 10% of the grain bill with sugar and I would increase the temp of the mash to offset the sugar. A barleywine is a great sipping by the fire kind of beer, it takes a lot of malt and a lot of time to get a good barleywine. I suggest considering everything before you brew and don't skimp on ingredients or in 8 months you'll be drinking a beer that's just okay. Just my opinion.

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[denny]

Do you have the option of adding DME, LME or honey? I'm not a fan of adding simple sugar to increase alcohol.

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Why not?

I prefer the flavor and complexity of LME, DME and honey added after 2/3 of the fermentation is completed. I've used sugar in the past and gotten cidery flavors that I don't care for. Just my opinion.

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I have used sugar dozens of times, maybe a hundred, and never gotten cidery flavors from it.

[denny]

There are other questions too; what is the batch size, how many lbs. of grain, what is the final OG expected with the malt on hand? I'm not saying that you can't brew a good beer when you add sugar, but I wouldn't go more than 10% of the grain bill with sugar and I would increase the temp of the mash to offset the sugar. A barleywine is a great sipping by the fire kind of beer, it takes a lot of malt and a lot of time to get a good barleywine. I suggest considering everything before you brew and don't skimp on ingredients or in 8 months you'll be drinking a beer that's just okay. Just my opinion.

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Do you brew Belgian styles?  They are often 20+% sugar.  And for the BW, the idea is to thin the body to balance all the malt. 

[mbbransc]

Have you considered dark candi syrup?  I brewed an English BW last weekend and added a pound of D-90 because I love that dark raisiny plum flavor coming through. I also added 3.3# of LME along with the 18# MO to save mash space.


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[Iliff Ave]

When brewing a batch for the first time, my efficiency is more unpredictable than I would like. Sometimes I will use small amounts of table sugar (under 5%) to hit my OG and promote higher attenuation as I like pretty dry beer. I have yet to find any negatives other than not being a good enough brewer to hit my predicted OG with any consistency...

[hopfenundmalz]

Do you have the option of adding DME, LME or honey? I'm not a fan of adding simple sugar to increase alcohol.

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Why not?

I prefer the flavor and complexity of LME, DME and honey added after 2/3 of the fermentation is completed. I've used sugar in the past and gotten cidery flavors that I don't care for. Just my opinion.

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I have used sugar dozens of times, maybe a hundred, and never gotten cidery flavors from it.

+1 No ciders flavors with enough viable yeast, up to 20% sugar.

[zwiller]

Same here.  That said, I do imagine if you were to brew a real light lager (IE 80's EDME lager kit) with 20% sugar you could potentially get some off flavors since there is nowhere to hide.  I'd stick to 10% on the BW.   Before I forget, make sure you use a metric $hit ton of yeast on it.  I would probably brew a normal gravity ale first and pitch on the cake and then hopefully you don't become a "my beer stalled" thread. 

[HoosierBrew]

Same here.  That said, I do imagine if you were to brew a real light lager (IE 80's EDME lager kit) with 20% sugar you could potentially get some off flavors since there is nowhere to hide.  I'd stick to 10% on the BW.   Before I forget, make sure you use a metric $hit ton of yeast on it.  I would probably brew a normal gravity ale first and pitch on the cake and then hopefully you don't become a "my beer stalled" thread. 

+2.  But even a pale beer like a tripel should be cidery with its simple pils and sugar grist (I use ~ 12% sugar) and it isn't. IMO the issue was never the sugar addition - it was limited availability of often old, poorly stored yeast and severe underpitching by today's standards that created the cidery flavors and the 'conventional wisdom' about adding sugar to the recipe.

[zwiller]

Touche'  Funny...  Just what the heck DOES "cidery" mean?  Thin or fruity or both?  Best term I've heard used regarding sugar in Belgian beers is that sugar makes the beer more "digestable".   

[Stevie]

Cidery isn't thin to me. It's more very dry with limited mouth feel.

ETA - also has a bit of a pucker to it