Author Topic: Belgian breweries low oxygen?  (Read 2307 times)

Offline homoeccentricus

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Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« on: November 14, 2016, 01:25:00 PM »
My next brew, and probably my first 99% low oxygen (last time had problems with mashing in the Braumeister) will be another shot at a fictitious Rochefort 4 clone. My question: do Belgian breweries, and Rochefort in particular brew lodo? My assumption is no. http://www.bloggen.be/belgische_brouwerijen/archief.php?ID=808813 is a list of pictures of Belgian breweries. It's a long page, look for "Rochefort". Is it correct to assume just by looking at the photos that Rochefort is non-lodo? And, of course, the question becomes: will lodo brewing improve a Rochefort clone?
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2016, 01:35:07 PM »
BTW, it is of course very well possible the the monks at Rochefort preboil their water, which, straight from the well  (I first wrote hell) has 245 ppm bicarbonate. That would make at least the first step lodo.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2016, 01:58:04 PM »
BTW, it is of course very well possible the the monks at Rochefort preboil their water, which, straight from the well  (I first wrote hell) has 245 ppm bicarbonate. That would make at least the first step lodo.
They could use slaked lime, or acid (no RHG)to neutralize the bicarbonate, or RO to remove the minerals. Hard to say from the pictures, no water treatment was evident.
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Offline beersk

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2016, 02:42:06 PM »
Yeah, it's difficult to say with such yeast driven beer. There is a lot of copper in their system though, that's for sure.
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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2016, 02:50:21 PM »
I would say that it is safe to assume that in organizations where prior approval is required for lay Brewers to even alter the components of a recipe, that major overhauls to brewing systems are not common. With that said, even the Trappists have updated various components of their systems but as was stated above, with such a yeast forward beer, the nuance may be lost.

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2016, 02:58:44 PM »
It might be interesting to know the factors that make a beer more or less oxygen sensitive.  You mention "yeast forward". Would that be the yeasts with either extreme ester (trappist) or phenol (saison) production? How about alcohol tolerance? How about dark malt complexity?
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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2016, 04:12:57 PM »
It might be interesting to know the factors that make a beer more or less oxygen sensitive.  You mention "yeast forward". Would that be the yeasts with either extreme ester (trappist) or phenol (saison) production? How about alcohol tolerance? How about dark malt complexity?

I just meant to say that Trappist beers in general are a yeast showcase. Much of the Low O2 character may be overshadowed by the yeast.

Although I'd like to experiment in the near future with some out of the ordinary Trappist style recipes and play with fermentation temps (i.e. Lower).

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2016, 01:41:07 AM »
Fascinating blog. I really enjoyed looking at those pics. Thanks.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2016, 12:43:26 PM »
Really cool.  Still wondering about what was the deal with the wooden beam-looking pieces suspended above the cool ship in the one brewery?
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Offline beersk

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2016, 01:34:21 PM »
Really cool.  Still wondering about what was the deal with the wooden beam-looking pieces suspended above the cool ship in the one brewery?
I noticed that too and had the same question.
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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2016, 01:50:11 PM »
Really cool.  Still wondering about what was the deal with the wooden beam-looking pieces suspended above the cool ship in the one brewery?
Raw wood to harbor the bugs and critters? You will see raw wood beams in some of the other breweries.
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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2016, 05:50:54 PM »
Really cool.  Still wondering about what was the deal with the wooden beam-looking pieces suspended above the cool ship in the one brewery?
Raw wood to harbor the bugs and critters? You will see raw wood beams in some of the other breweries.

Also, sometime if they open a new brewery at a new location they bring in some of the old beams from the old place for the reason mentioned above. don't you guys ever pick up a book? ;)

Offline beersk

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2016, 06:56:47 PM »
Really cool.  Still wondering about what was the deal with the wooden beam-looking pieces suspended above the cool ship in the one brewery?
Raw wood to harbor the bugs and critters? You will see raw wood beams in some of the other breweries.

Also, sometime if they open a new brewery at a new location they bring in some of the old beams from the old place for the reason mentioned above. don't you guys ever pick up a book? ;)
Huh? *slobbers* Why read when there's TV?
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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2016, 03:56:18 PM »
Chimay uses the Meura mash filter system.  I can't think of a more oxygen rich mash system.  Grist hammers to pulverize the grain to a powder, which then gets loaded into the filters.  We all know what excellent beer Chimay produces.  It's just not used in big Belgian beers with Belgian yeast.  Even Coors Light is made with a Meura mash filter system. Not sure this low oxygen mash is real issue.

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2016, 04:31:24 PM »
Chimay uses the Meura mash filter system.  I can't think of a more oxygen rich mash system.  Grist hammers to pulverize the grain to a powder, which then gets loaded into the filters.  We all know what excellent beer Chimay produces.  It's just not used in big Belgian beers with Belgian yeast.  Even Coors Light is made with a Meura mash filter system. Not sure this low oxygen mash is real issue.

I would say that ultimately it's less about who's doing what and more about what the process can do for you. I'm going to be starting a Belgian run (Trappist ales) very soon and trying to replicate these ales with less reliance on syrups.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2016, 04:34:26 PM by Big Monk »