Author Topic: Belgian breweries low oxygen?  (Read 2659 times)

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2016, 04:43:20 PM »
Still haven't found any sign of low oxygen brewing in Belgium. Maybe our friends in Leuven do it to brew pils, but otherwise? People laugh at you when you explain the concept.
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2016, 03:27:56 PM »
Chimay uses the Meura mash filter system.  I can't think of a more oxygen rich mash system.  Grist hammers to pulverize the grain to a powder, which then gets loaded into the filters.  We all know what excellent beer Chimay produces.  It's just not used in big Belgian beers with Belgian yeast.  Even Coors Light is made with a Meura mash filter system. Not sure this low oxygen mash is real issue.

One of the most missed points is that LARGENESS of the brewery(batch sizes) basically automatically makes it Low oxygen. The larger the brewery, the lower oxygen it is(naturally by doing nothing).
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2016, 04:40:53 PM »
Chimay uses the Meura mash filter system.  I can't think of a more oxygen rich mash system.  Grist hammers to pulverize the grain to a powder, which then gets loaded into the filters.  We all know what excellent beer Chimay produces.  It's just not used in big Belgian beers with Belgian yeast.  Even Coors Light is made with a Meura mash filter system. Not sure this low oxygen mash is real issue.

One of the most missed points is that LARGENESS of the brewery(batch sizes) basically automatically makes it Low oxygen. The larger the brewery, the lower oxygen it is(naturally by doing nothing).

At what size do you consider a brewery to be large? I know it would be a curve decreasing with size, but where would the knee in the curve be?
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2016, 04:51:58 PM »
Chimay uses the Meura mash filter system.  I can't think of a more oxygen rich mash system.  Grist hammers to pulverize the grain to a powder, which then gets loaded into the filters.  We all know what excellent beer Chimay produces.  It's just not used in big Belgian beers with Belgian yeast.  Even Coors Light is made with a Meura mash filter system. Not sure this low oxygen mash is real issue.

One of the most missed points is that LARGENESS of the brewery(batch sizes) basically automatically makes it Low oxygen. The larger the brewery, the lower oxygen it is(naturally by doing nothing).

At what size do you consider a brewery to be large? I know it would be a curve decreasing with size, but where would the knee in the curve be?

Something like a 100hl brewery will have like 10X better protection, and 1000hl will have 20x better. Or something like that
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Offline dilluh98

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2016, 12:36:09 PM »
On a strictly surface area to volume argument, you'd see a 1/r trend. r being the radius of a sphere and since a cow can be approximated as a sphere, so too should beer.  :D

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2016, 06:43:21 PM »
Chimay uses the Meura mash filter system.  I can't think of a more oxygen rich mash system.  Grist hammers to pulverize the grain to a powder, which then gets loaded into the filters.  We all know what excellent beer Chimay produces.  It's just not used in big Belgian beers with Belgian yeast.  Even Coors Light is made with a Meura mash filter system. Not sure this low oxygen mash is real issue.

One of the most missed points is that LARGENESS of the brewery(batch sizes) basically automatically makes it Low oxygen. The larger the brewery, the lower oxygen it is(naturally by doing nothing).

At what size do you consider a brewery to be large? I know it would be a curve decreasing with size, but where would the knee in the curve be?

Something like a 100hl brewery will have like 10X better protection, and 1000hl will have 20x better. Or something like that

Is this simply due to output then?

Offline The Beerery

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2016, 06:48:47 PM »
Chimay uses the Meura mash filter system.  I can't think of a more oxygen rich mash system.  Grist hammers to pulverize the grain to a powder, which then gets loaded into the filters.  We all know what excellent beer Chimay produces.  It's just not used in big Belgian beers with Belgian yeast.  Even Coors Light is made with a Meura mash filter system. Not sure this low oxygen mash is real issue.



One of the most missed points is that LARGENESS of the brewery(batch sizes) basically automatically makes it Low oxygen. The larger the brewery, the lower oxygen it is(naturally by doing nothing).

At what size do you consider a brewery to be large? I know it would be a curve decreasing with size, but where would the knee in the curve be?

Something like a 100hl brewery will have like 10X better protection, and 1000hl will have 20x better. Or something like that

Is this simply due to output then?

Surface to volume of the liquids. Generally when vessels grow in size the bulk of the Growth is vertical. Which means you have much less surface for the air to infuse into. Square cube law.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2016, 06:49:44 PM »
Thanks. Then they almost are lodo by default.

Offline The Beerery

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2016, 06:51:52 PM »
Thanks. Then they almost are lodo by default.

Exactly. The larger the brewery the more low oxygen it naturally is. We have to use the crude albeit very effective hack of SMB to emulate basically.
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Offline narcout

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2016, 10:27:17 PM »
If a particular brewery doesn't use de-oxygenated water for mashing, does the smaller surface to volume ratio really matter?
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Offline dilluh98

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2016, 03:16:43 PM »
If a particular brewery doesn't use de-oxygenated water for mashing, does the smaller surface to volume ratio really matter?

This is something I've wondered about. Also, can I assume that if a brewery reeks of mash, that their beer is probably not low oxygen?

I did the mini-mash test for myself yesterday and it was strange to not smell that typical mash smell on the pre-boil/SMB sample. I've always associated that smell with home brewing. Wort color and taste were also night and day - triangled in red cups to disguise color and also without smelling the wort, it wasn't even close for myself, my wife and my neighbor who was curious what I was up to. No one preferred the taste of the non-SMB sample. My wife's comment about the pre-boil/SMB sample was, "I distinctly taste honey and graham crackers. It's dynamic - like there's more than one thing going on."

Offline The Beerery

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2016, 04:59:36 PM »
If a particular brewery doesn't use de-oxygenated water for mashing, does the smaller surface to volume ratio really matter?

This is something I've wondered about. Also, can I assume that if a brewery reeks of mash, that their beer is probably not low oxygen?

I did the mini-mash test for myself yesterday and it was strange to not smell that typical mash smell on the pre-boil/SMB sample. I've always associated that smell with home brewing. Wort color and taste were also night and day - triangled in red cups to disguise color and also without smelling the wort, it wasn't even close for myself, my wife and my neighbor who was curious what I was up to. No one preferred the taste of the non-SMB sample. My wife's comment about the pre-boil/SMB sample was, "I distinctly taste honey and graham crackers. It's dynamic - like there's more than one thing going on."
Glad you saw some results... pretty night and day isn't it?

I guess it all depends on the water treatment side. They certainly won't be picking more up, after mash in but it all matters what it is on the hot side. ~3ppm is really the break point of not noticing any flavor improvements. You will still see color improvements though.
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