Author Topic: Belgian breweries low oxygen?  (Read 5350 times)

Offline denny

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2020, 06:13:08 pm »
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Big Monk

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2020, 11:30:17 pm »
It's from 2015.

Thanks for the info.

I’ve pulled bits of data from a number of sources and have modeled their brewhouse and recipe to a reasonable accuracy, including system losses, brew length, etc. and can match their pH values quoted in BLAM with the Rochefort 6 recipe sheet.

Pretty exciting.

Offline MattyAHA

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2020, 04:40:13 pm »
i been hearing about LO brewing for some time now, i understand that o2 pick up on finished beer is something that should be avoided/ and or eliminated, but whats the deal with low o2 brewing? getting o2 out of the grains and water and complete process? idk but it seems a bit paranoid and impractical. charlie bamforth said in a podcast that HSA is over blown and not a big concern, what does LO brewing bring to the table?
Matty


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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2020, 05:06:23 pm »
It is important if you are using the palest malts to make a Helles, Kölsch, Pils, and so one.

If you are the brewery that only uses Pala Ale malt and darker, carry on doing what you are doing.

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Offline MattyAHA

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2020, 02:25:51 pm »
It is important if you are using the palest malts to make a Helles, Kölsch, Pils, and so one.

If you are the brewery that only uses Pala Ale malt and darker, carry on doing what you are doing.
why is it important when using the palest malts?
Matty


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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2020, 03:06:28 pm »
It is important if you are using the palest malts to make a Helles, Kölsch, Pils, and so one.

If you are the brewery that only uses Pala Ale malt and darker, carry on doing what you are doing.
why is it important when using the palest malts?

Kilning to darker Lovibond denatures the Lipoxygenase in the malt.
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Offline MattyAHA

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2020, 03:51:35 pm »
Forgive me Jeff, i am not well rounded with all the types of enzymes and stuff, but wouldn't boiling the wort denature Lipoxygenase? i gotta be honest i don't even know what that is
Matty


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Big Monk

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2020, 04:24:15 pm »
i been hearing about LO brewing for some time now, i understand that o2 pick up on finished beer is something that should be avoided/ and or eliminated, but whats the deal with low o2 brewing? getting o2 out of the grains and water and complete process? idk but it seems a bit paranoid and impractical. charlie bamforth said in a podcast that HSA is over blown and not a big concern, what does LO brewing bring to the table?

I wasn’t trying to dredge up low oxygen topics by resurrecting this thread but rather answering a question about Rochefort and their water.

To address your comments directly would be a retread of so many other comments made by other people that have been answered ad nauseam. However, in short, the theory, which is pretty darn sound at this point, is that the natural antioxidants present in both hops and malt can be preserved by the exclusion of hot and cold side oxygen. These flavors are then preserved in the final beer, meaning a persistent fresh grain flavor, bright hop flavor, and hop aroma are all preserved.

That’s the long and short of it.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 04:26:05 pm by Big Monk »

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2020, 04:40:21 pm »
Forgive me Jeff, i am not well rounded with all the types of enzymes and stuff, but wouldn't boiling the wort denature Lipoxygenase? i gotta be honest i don't even know what that is
The damage is done quickly in the Mash.
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Offline narvin

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2020, 04:45:49 pm »
I think it depends again on the size and type of the brewery.  Trappists are probably the least likely to change their process (and also share it with the brewing world) but I saw some modern German brewing systems when I was there.  Bavik/De Brabanderie and Trolls(Busch) come to mind.  Of course I also saw a 100 year old iron mash filter at a smallerbrewery.

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2020, 05:33:10 pm »
i been hearing about LO brewing for some time now, i understand that o2 pick up on finished beer is something that should be avoided/ and or eliminated, but whats the deal with low o2 brewing? getting o2 out of the grains and water and complete process? idk but it seems a bit paranoid and impractical. charlie bamforth said in a podcast that HSA is over blown and not a big concern, what does LO brewing bring to the table?

I wasn’t trying to dredge up low oxygen topics by resurrecting this thread but rather answering a question about Rochefort and their water.

To address your comments directly would be a retread of so many other comments made by other people that have been answered ad nauseam. However, in short, the theory, which is pretty darn sound at this point, is that the natural antioxidants present in both hops and malt can be preserved by the exclusion of hot and cold side oxygen. These flavors are then preserved in the final beer, meaning a persistent fresh grain flavor, bright hop flavor, and hop aroma are all preserved.

That’s the long and short of it.
There’s a ton of info here: http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/


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Offline Bilsch

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2020, 07:30:41 pm »
I have only been to one Belgian brewery Lindemans, back before their was even a tour. You just showed up and they let you walk wherever you wanted in the facility. It didn't look very low oxygen with the huge koelschip but one thing I am sure of is the Belgians are teaching it to their brewery course students, at least at Ku Leuven. Low oxygen practices are all over the Science of Brewing course I took online. Anyone taking this course cannot escape the fact that oxygen is bad at all points in the beer making process. Here are two particularly noteworthy quotes from the classwork:

"Take care of the oxygen ingression during the brewing and of the heat impact during brewing. Grain contains an enormous amount of anti-oxidants that is a gift from Mother Nature. If you destroy it already by having lots of oxygen and a lot of time at really high temperature, there are no natural preservatives anymore in your final beer. For us, that seems a little bit stupid these days, we have it from Mother Nature, why don't we use it? Make sure that, no matter what brewing system you choose, take care of oxygen ingression. Take care about the heat impacts. You need heat, you cannot do anything about that, but try to minimize it as much as you can."

"Since oxygen/ROS is so important in these reactions, oxygen uptake should be avoided at all times in every step of the brewing process, except during wort aeration before yeast fermentation. Oxygen ingress during the brewing process should be avoided: the oxygen content during wort boiling should be limited, as this process step has been shown to be the main step of autoxidation of unsaturated fatty acids."

Big Monk

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2020, 09:07:26 pm »
I think it depends again on the size and type of the brewery.  Trappists are probably the least likely to change their process (and also share it with the brewing world) but I saw some modern German brewing systems when I was there.  Bavik/De Brabanderie and Trolls(Busch) come to mind.  Of course I also saw a 100 year old iron mash filter at a smallerbrewery.

Chimay, Westmalle, Westvleteren, Achel, etc. all have pretty darn state of the art stainless steel systems with either formally trained monks or lay brewers at the helm. I’m not saying anything about low oxygen, just merely that they are way more modern than most people credit them for.

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2020, 11:33:12 pm »
I think it depends again on the size and type of the brewery.  Trappists are probably the least likely to change their process (and also share it with the brewing world) but I saw some modern German brewing systems when I was there.  Bavik/De Brabanderie and Trolls(Busch) come to mind.  Of course I also saw a 100 year old iron mash filter at a smallerbrewery.

Chimay, Westmalle, Westvleteren, Achel, etc. all have pretty darn state of the art stainless steel systems with either formally trained monks or lay brewers at the helm. I’m not saying anything about low oxygen, just merely that they are way more modern than most people credit them for.
You should see the one in Spencer, MA. It looks more like a lab than a brewery.
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Big Monk

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Re: Belgian breweries low oxygen?
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2020, 11:56:33 pm »
I think it depends again on the size and type of the brewery.  Trappists are probably the least likely to change their process (and also share it with the brewing world) but I saw some modern German brewing systems when I was there.  Bavik/De Brabanderie and Trolls(Busch) come to mind.  Of course I also saw a 100 year old iron mash filter at a smallerbrewery.

Chimay, Westmalle, Westvleteren, Achel, etc. all have pretty darn state of the art stainless steel systems with either formally trained monks or lay brewers at the helm. I’m not saying anything about low oxygen, just merely that they are way more modern than most people credit them for.
You should see the one in Spencer, MA. It looks more like a lab than a brewery.

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I’ve been meaning to get some more Spencer.