Author Topic: W34/70 vs S-189  (Read 14122 times)

Offline TXFlyGuy

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #135 on: January 23, 2021, 09:55:04 PM »
Rehydrate vs sprinkle has to be the longest running debate in home brewing by far haha

The manufacturers now recommend pitching direct, no rehydration. Not much debate among them.
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Offline fredthecat

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #136 on: January 23, 2021, 11:10:35 PM »
Rehydrate vs sprinkle has to be the longest running debate in home brewing by far haha

The manufacturers now recommend pitching direct, no rehydration. Not much debate among them.

i disagree with the "now". they waffle back and forth on it, and have at various times recommended both. fermentis has one PDF dated 2019 where they state rehydration is not necessary, but then state benefits of it on the same page. lallemand currently recommends rehydration.

 when i go to lallemands website, they state that rehydrating does x process which is beneficial to yeast health. https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/canada/products/brewing-yeast/

this is also interesting in that they suggest against direct pitching if you belief the wort will have a low Ph (ie. sour or ??) https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/docs/products/bp/BEST-PRACTICES_REHYDRATION_DIGITAL.pdf



again, the next thing would be the viable cell count upon packaging of the dried yeast and how that plays out upon adding it to wort. because i absolutely concede that if the cell count is 150% of what is necessary for 20 litres of 1.045 wort, then if not rehydrating makes it say 10% less viable, it really doesn't matter.

as stated already though, my personal findings and experiences, which were not scientifically discovered are that rehydrating makes better beer for a minimal effort (i don't follow the instructions lallemand has to the letter ie. autoclaving, slowly lowering the wort from ~30C to wort temp etc)

Offline BeerfanOz

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #137 on: January 24, 2021, 04:52:26 AM »
I’ve done both with good results. I use liquid 95% if the time, although have tried a few of the new varieties, of which verdant is my favourite. I just sprinkled it, worked great.


It just seems to come up now and then and always goes round and round. Goes to show there’s more than one way of arriving at the same place in brewing. Which applies to most aspects of brewing.
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Offline denny

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #138 on: January 24, 2021, 03:26:02 PM »
Rehydrate vs sprinkle has to be the longest running debate in home brewing by far haha

The manufacturers now recommend pitching direct, no rehydration. Not much debate among them.

i disagree with the "now". they waffle back and forth on it, and have at various times recommended both. fermentis has one PDF dated 2019 where they state rehydration is not necessary, but then state benefits of it on the same page. lallemand currently recommends rehydration.

 when i go to lallemands website, they state that rehydrating does x process which is beneficial to yeast health. https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/canada/products/brewing-yeast/

this is also interesting in that they suggest against direct pitching if you belief the wort will have a low Ph (ie. sour or ??) https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/docs/products/bp/BEST-PRACTICES_REHYDRATION_DIGITAL.pdf



again, the next thing would be the viable cell count upon packaging of the dried yeast and how that plays out upon adding it to wort. because i absolutely concede that if the cell count is 150% of what is necessary for 20 litres of 1.045 wort, then if not rehydrating makes it say 10% less viable, it really doesn't matter.

as stated already though, my personal findings and experiences, which were not scientifically discovered are that rehydrating makes better beer for a minimal effort (i don't follow the instructions lallemand has to the letter ie. autoclaving, slowly lowering the wort from ~30C to wort temp etc)

I have talked to microbiologists at both Lallemand and Fermentis. They tell me there is no need to rehydrate. Websites obviously have not caught up.  Do what your experience tells you to do.
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Online neuse

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #139 on: January 24, 2021, 04:06:19 PM »
Although Fermentis is comfortable with direct pitching, they recommend a specific procedure. From https://fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Brochure_Tips_and_Tricks_BAT_BD.pdf:
"If the brewery is not equipped with a system designed for the rehydration step,
we highly recommend a direct pitch.

To do so we recommend using the necessary quantity in weight of ADY and to
put it into the fermentation vessel during the first part of the wort cooling step.
The temperature of cooling will be the same as the temperature used to start
fermentation. There is no need for aeration during this process.

Step 1
Start to fill your fermenter with hopped wort until the cone is filled

Step 2
Sprinkle dry yeast directly in the hopped wort

Step 3
Finish to fill the fermenter"

I also emailed Fermentis about dry pitching and was advised not to pitch on foam: "Sprinkling the yeast on the foam will leave some yeast outside of the liquid which is no good."

By the way, this is a great discussion. Thanks to all who commented.

Offline BrewBama

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W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #140 on: January 24, 2021, 04:31:56 PM »
...

To do so we recommend using the necessary quantity in weight of ADY and to
put it into the fermentation vessel during the first part of the wort cooling step.
The temperature of cooling will be the same as the temperature used to start
fermentation. There is no need for aeration during this process.

Step 1
Start to fill your fermenter with hopped wort until the cone is filled

Step 2
Sprinkle dry yeast directly in the hopped wort

Step 3
Finish to fill the fermenter"


...

This is what i do. Just toss in the necessary qty dry as the fermenter is filling. Simple. Works as advertised.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 04:41:19 PM by BrewBama »
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Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #141 on: January 24, 2021, 05:13:21 PM »
I came across this and thought it helped shine some light on why the dry yeast manufactures have changed their recommendations as of lately. The video gets into the experiment at about the 3:20 min mark.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=yeast+rehrate&&view=detail&mid=A46D04ABD74A5E0B5BD1A46D04ABD74A5E0B5BD1&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dyeast%2Brehrate%26FORM%3DHDRSC3


Offline fredthecat

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #142 on: January 24, 2021, 06:00:39 PM »
Rehydrate vs sprinkle has to be the longest running debate in home brewing by far haha

The manufacturers now recommend pitching direct, no rehydration. Not much debate among them.

i disagree with the "now". they waffle back and forth on it, and have at various times recommended both. fermentis has one PDF dated 2019 where they state rehydration is not necessary, but then state benefits of it on the same page. lallemand currently recommends rehydration.

 when i go to lallemands website, they state that rehydrating does x process which is beneficial to yeast health. https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/canada/products/brewing-yeast/

this is also interesting in that they suggest against direct pitching if you belief the wort will have a low Ph (ie. sour or ??) https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/docs/products/bp/BEST-PRACTICES_REHYDRATION_DIGITAL.pdf



again, the next thing would be the viable cell count upon packaging of the dried yeast and how that plays out upon adding it to wort. because i absolutely concede that if the cell count is 150% of what is necessary for 20 litres of 1.045 wort, then if not rehydrating makes it say 10% less viable, it really doesn't matter.

as stated already though, my personal findings and experiences, which were not scientifically discovered are that rehydrating makes better beer for a minimal effort (i don't follow the instructions lallemand has to the letter ie. autoclaving, slowly lowering the wort from ~30C to wort temp etc)

I have talked to microbiologists at both Lallemand and Fermentis. They tell me there is no need to rehydrate. Websites obviously have not caught up.  Do what your experience tells you to do.

thats a good bit of evidence. i'll take that and i'll stop poking this thread.

thanks denny.


Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #143 on: January 24, 2021, 10:44:02 PM »
I do agree with Dave in that dry yeast is fairly indestructible. I’ve never heard of anyone keeping a pack of liquid yeast on stand by just in case dry yeast fails.

Lol! That is so true.  One thing I promised myself this time around was that I would focus on the beer instead of the yeast.  I also wanted try to capture the fun I had when I brewed all-grain beer with a very minimal kit.  I so easy to get wrapped around the axle with brewing.