[brewinhard]

Last month I split 10G of german pilsner wort between 34/70 and S189.  I conducted a total of 7 blind triangle tests, 3 of those correctly identified the odd one out.  The differences I noted were slightly more malt character in the S189 and the aroma of the 34/70 was slightly more 'lagerish' - terrible descriptor, I know...  Other correct tasters also commented on the aroma being different.
I also noted that the 34/70 dropped clear slightly sooner than the S189.

Good data. Thanks for sharing. Which did you prefer for your pilsner?

[bboy9000]

Last month I split 10G of german pilsner wort between 34/70 and S189.  I conducted a total of 7 blind triangle tests, 3 of those correctly identified the odd one out.  The differences I noted were slightly more malt character in the S189 and the aroma of the 34/70 was slightly more 'lagerish' - terrible descriptor, I know...  Other correct tasters also commented on the aroma being different.
I also noted that the 34/70 dropped clear slightly sooner than the S189.

Did you record the qualitative descriptions from the participants too?  I'd like to see what those who didn't know what the experiment was about had to say about flavor and aroma.  Would be interesting for the forum to read.

[bigmunchez]

I was one of the 3 correct tasters (so not technically 'blind' as I was aware of the variable).  It wasn't massively late hopped but I thought there was a bit more hop character (mainly aroma) in the 34/70.  The other two correct tasters didn't pick much on flavour, but both thought the aroma was different.  They thought the 34/70 smelled more like a typical lager (? sulphur) - I guess its the most widely used lager yeast so maybe its more familiar to their palettes.

I found the 34/70 slightly more crisp and perhaps better suited to the pilsner style. So in that regard I guess I preferred it, but the general consensus was that if you were served a pint of one and then served your next pint from the other tap, it's unlikely you'd notice the switch.

Also, I harvested the slurry of the S189 for a dunkel and its my best dunkel yet. (no science here...)

[BrewBama]

Last month I split 10G of german pilsner wort between 34/70 and S189.  I conducted a total of 7 blind triangle tests, 3 of those correctly identified the odd one out.  The differences I noted were slightly more malt character in the S189 and the aroma of the 34/70 was slightly more 'lagerish' - terrible descriptor, I know...  Other correct tasters also commented on the aroma being different.
I also noted that the 34/70 dropped clear slightly sooner than the S189.

I was one of the 3 correct tasters (so not technically 'blind' as I was aware of the variable).  It wasn't massively late hopped but I thought there was a bit more hop character (mainly aroma) in the 34/70.  The other two correct tasters didn't pick much on flavour, but both thought the aroma was different.  They thought the 34/70 smelled more like a typical lager (? sulphur) - I guess its the most widely used lager yeast so maybe its more familiar to their palettes.

I found the 34/70 slightly more crisp and perhaps better suited to the pilsner style. So in that regard I guess I preferred it, but the general consensus was that if you were served a pint of one and then served your next pint from the other tap, it's unlikely you'd notice the switch.

Also, I harvested the slurry of the S189 for a dunkel and its my best dunkel yet. (no science here...)

Thank you. This is VERY helpful. Cheers!


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[erockrph]

I know that I'm a bit late to the conversation, but I wanted to chime in on a few things.

I use 34/70 quite a bit. I have fermented it using traditional lager fermentation schedules, accelerated lager schedules, and ale-like fermentations at temps anywhere from the mid 50's to the mid 60's. I have never gotten a lemon flavor from it. As a matter of fact, I find that 34/70 mutes lemon character from hops like Sterling, Motueka, Kazbek, etc. - varieties that give distinct citrus character with other yeasts.

I can't refute that LODO could have something to do with it, as I have yet to incorporate that in the hot side. One other thing that comes to mind is that if the LODO brewers that get this character are using saurgut, maybe the yeast is somehow enhancing the lemony, Berliner Weisse character from the acid fermentation rather than producing this during fermentation.

I have also noticed the lack of sulfur production from dry lager strains. While I don't want my beer to smell like eggs, there are certain beers where I prefer just a whiff of sulfur on the nose. I have used 34/70 on several occasions in my Märzen, and it makes a damn good beer, but when I use 2633 it leaves a subtle sulfur note on the nose that takes it to the next level.

Regarding S-189, I have only used it once, using an accelerated lager fermentation schedule, and I wasn't a fan of the results. It was kind of muddled, with some fusel alcohol notes. If I used it again, I'd be sure to stick to a traditional low & slow lager fermentation.

And yes, 34/70 finishes crisp enough for a pilsner, but WY2278 is even crisper. 2278 is the only yeast I'll use for a hoppy lager like an IPL. Every other lager strain I've used tends to strip some late hop character (especially fruitier varietals), even 34/70.

[hopfenundmalz]

I know that I'm a bit late to the conversation, but I wanted to chime in on a few things.

I use 34/70 quite a bit. I have fermented it using traditional lager fermentation schedules, accelerated lager schedules, and ale-like fermentations at temps anywhere from the mid 50's to the mid 60's. I have never gotten a lemon flavor from it. As a matter of fact, I find that 34/70 mutes lemon character from hops like Sterling, Motueka, Kazbek, etc. - varieties that give distinct citrus character with other yeasts.

I can't refute that LODO could have something to do with it, as I have yet to incorporate that in the hot side. One other thing that comes to mind is that if the LODO brewers that get this character are using saurgut, maybe the yeast is somehow enhancing the lemony, Berliner Weisse character from the acid fermentation rather than producing this during fermentation.

I have also noticed the lack of sulfur production from dry lager strains. While I don't want my beer to smell like eggs, there are certain beers where I prefer just a whiff of sulfur on the nose. I have used 34/70 on several occasions in my Märzen, and it makes a damn good beer, but when I use 2633 it leaves a subtle sulfur note on the nose that takes it to the next level.

Regarding S-189, I have only used it once, using an accelerated lager fermentation schedule, and I wasn't a fan of the results. It was kind of muddled, with some fusel alcohol notes. If I used it again, I'd be sure to stick to a traditional low & slow lager fermentation.

And yes, 34/70 finishes crisp enough for a pilsner, but WY2278 is even crisper. 2278 is the only yeast I'll use for a hoppy lager like an IPL. Every other lager strain I've used tends to strip some late hop character (especially fruitier varietals), even 34/70.

Interesting comment on the 2278 in a Pils. I have used it in a Czech Pils, trying to do a PU clone, but that was a split batch that I blended back together, using the D and H strain, to do what they used to do. Now they just use the H strain from what I have read. I will split a batch of German Pils with 830 and 2278 and see which I like best.

[Steve Ruch]

I'll be doing a vienna lager with the S-34/70 today after breakfast.

[brewinhard]

I'll be doing a vienna lager with the S-34/70 today after breakfast.

Oh Steve, you're gonna screw it up without the S-189!!! 

[The Beerery]

I can't refute that LODO could have something to do with it, as I have yet to incorporate that in the hot side. One other thing that comes to mind is that if the LODO brewers that get this character are using saurgut, maybe the yeast is somehow enhancing the lemony, Berliner Weisse character from the acid fermentation rather than producing this during fermentation.

I have also noticed the lack of sulfur production from dry lager strains. While I don't want my beer to smell like eggs, there are certain beers where I prefer just a whiff of sulfur on the nose. I have used 34/70 on several occasions in my Märzen, and it makes a damn good beer, but when I use 2633 it leaves a subtle sulfur note on the nose that takes it to the next level.

Regarding S-189, I have only used it once, using an accelerated lager fermentation schedule, and I wasn't a fan of the results. It was kind of muddled, with some fusel alcohol notes. If I used it again, I'd be sure to stick to a traditional low & slow lager fermentation.

And yes, 34/70 finishes crisp enough for a pilsner, but WY2278 is even crisper. 2278 is the only yeast I'll use for a hoppy lager like an IPL. Every other lager strain I've used tends to strip some late hop character (especially fruitier varietals), even 34/70.

Interesting observation, regarding sauergut. Although my SG tastes more like orange juice than lemon juice, you may be on to something.

Glad to see someone else, seeing the same attributes to the dry yeasts as far as sulfur, and whatnot.

[Steve Ruch]

I'll be doing a vienna lager with the S-34/70 today after breakfast.

Oh Steve, you're gonna screw it up without the S-189!!! 

What? 
I went with the 34/70 to get a drier finish. S-189 goes into my next marzen.

[duelerx]

Is S-189 a good candidate for a tropical stout?

[brewinhard]

Is S-189 a good candidate for a tropical stout?

Tropical Stouts are typically fermented warm(er) with a traditional lager yeast. Not sure how this strain would fare at warmer temps.

[Iliff Ave]

http://brulosophy.com/2016/12/15/yeast-comparison-saflager-w-3470-vs-saflager-s-189-exbeeriment-results/

[PORTERHAUS]

I seen the Brulosophy experiment this morning. I recently used 34/70 for the first time on my last lager. I plan on trying the S-189. So far I have been happier with Mangrove Jacks's Bohemian Lager dry yeast. Its just a bit more to my liking and really performs and tastes closer to to Wyeast Bohemian Lager which I have used a lot.

[Frankenbrew]

My experience with both yeasts (same maibock recipe) is that that S-189 produces a lager that is a bit more malty. The other thing is that the one into which I pitched the S-189 had better head/foam. Not exactly scientific, that's what I got.