Author Topic: W34/70 vs S-189  (Read 19965 times)

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2016, 08:10:55 am »
So 2124 is the same as 34/70 right?

Yup. Those beers sound good, too.
Jon H.

The Beerery

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2016, 09:09:40 am »
While the dry do start out life as the liquid strain equivalents, they don't really exhibit the same properties. For instance 34/70 can throw lemon( I have never had 2124/830 do that), and none throw enough sulfur to help you post fermentation. Also interestingly they don't have the same attenuation or floccuation characteristics. I have gone though my fair share of 500g bricks of both of these yeast, but for flavor and post fermentation protection nothing beats the liquid strains IMO, especially when you go with low oxygen brewing techniques. The game changes then.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 09:19:41 am by The Beerery »

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2016, 09:24:25 am »
While the dry do start out life as the liquid strain equivalents, they don't really exhibit the same properties. For instance 34/70 can throw lemon( I have never had 2124/830 do that), and none throw enough sulfur to help you post fermentation. Also interestingly they don't have the same attenuation or floccuation characteristics. I have gone though my fair share of 500g bricks of both of these yeast, but for flavor and post fermentation protection nothing beats the liquid strains IMO, especially when you go with low oxygen brewing techniques. The game changes then.


I agree that there are definite differences in fermentation characteristics/performance between dry and liquid. I much prefer liquid cultures myself.
Jon H.

The Beerery

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2016, 09:26:44 am »
While the dry do start out life as the liquid strain equivalents, they don't really exhibit the same properties. For instance 34/70 can throw lemon( I have never had 2124/830 do that), and none throw enough sulfur to help you post fermentation. Also interestingly they don't have the same attenuation or floccuation characteristics. I have gone though my fair share of 500g bricks of both of these yeast, but for flavor and post fermentation protection nothing beats the liquid strains IMO, especially when you go with low oxygen brewing techniques. The game changes then.

I really wanted to love the dry lager yeasts, not having to oxygenate your wort could have been a huge benefit, but in the end the flavor, just didn't work for me.


I agree that there are definite differences in fermentation characteristics/performance between dry and liquid. I much prefer liquid cultures myself.

Offline Philbrew

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2016, 10:23:53 am »
While the dry do start out life as the liquid strain equivalents, they don't really exhibit the same properties. For instance 34/70 can throw lemon( I have never had 2124/830 do that), and none throw enough sulfur to help you post fermentation. Also interestingly they don't have the same attenuation or floccuation characteristics. I have gone though my fair share of 500g bricks of both of these yeast, but for flavor and post fermentation protection nothing beats the liquid strains IMO, especially when you go with low oxygen brewing techniques. The game changes then.
Where I live (110 mi. to nearest LHBS), the convenience of having 6-8 different dry yeasts in the fridge is a big plus.
In my two lodo attempts so far, I've used dry yeasts in a SNS starter to get the yeast going strong and the cell count up.  Thoughts?
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

The Beerery

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2016, 10:46:03 am »
While the dry do start out life as the liquid strain equivalents, they don't really exhibit the same properties. For instance 34/70 can throw lemon( I have never had 2124/830 do that), and none throw enough sulfur to help you post fermentation. Also interestingly they don't have the same attenuation or floccuation characteristics. I have gone though my fair share of 500g bricks of both of these yeast, but for flavor and post fermentation protection nothing beats the liquid strains IMO, especially when you go with low oxygen brewing techniques. The game changes then.
Where I live (110 mi. to nearest LHBS), the convenience of having 6-8 different dry yeasts in the fridge is a big plus.
In my two lodo attempts so far, I've used dry yeasts in a SNS starter to get the yeast going strong and the cell count up.  Thoughts?

They don't fit the flavor profiles and characteristics I want in a lager yeast.

Offline Philbrew

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2016, 12:11:51 pm »
While the dry do start out life as the liquid strain equivalents, they don't really exhibit the same properties. For instance 34/70 can throw lemon( I have never had 2124/830 do that), and none throw enough sulfur to help you post fermentation. Also interestingly they don't have the same attenuation or floccuation characteristics. I have gone though my fair share of 500g bricks of both of these yeast, but for flavor and post fermentation protection nothing beats the liquid strains IMO, especially when you go with low oxygen brewing techniques. The game changes then.
Where I live (110 mi. to nearest LHBS), the convenience of having 6-8 different dry yeasts in the fridge is a big plus.
In my two lodo attempts so far, I've used dry yeasts in a SNS starter to get the yeast going strong and the cell count up.  Thoughts?

They don't fit the flavor profiles and characteristics I want in a lager yeast.
So, there is no technical problem with dry yeasts for lodo, it's just a flavor preference thing?

My two batches are still in the fermenter.
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

The Beerery

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2016, 12:36:47 pm »
While the dry do start out life as the liquid strain equivalents, they don't really exhibit the same properties. For instance 34/70 can throw lemon( I have never had 2124/830 do that), and none throw enough sulfur to help you post fermentation. Also interestingly they don't have the same attenuation or floccuation characteristics. I have gone though my fair share of 500g bricks of both of these yeast, but for flavor and post fermentation protection nothing beats the liquid strains IMO, especially when you go with low oxygen brewing techniques. The game changes then.
Where I live (110 mi. to nearest LHBS), the convenience of having 6-8 different dry yeasts in the fridge is a big plus.
In my two lodo attempts so far, I've used dry yeasts in a SNS starter to get the yeast going strong and the cell count up.  Thoughts?

They don't fit the flavor profiles and characteristics I want in a lager yeast.
So, there is no technical problem with dry yeasts for lodo, it's just a flavor preference thing?

My two batches are still in the fermenter.

Besides not enough sulfur, its purely just flavor(or really off flavors).

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2016, 12:48:03 pm »
Is it a matter of re-pitching or are you finding the trouble in the initial pitch of dry yeast?  I have noticed a little lemon in a pilsner made with 34/70, but not to the degree of making it totally unacceptable.  But I acknowledge that I much prefer repitching with liquid yeasts and 2206 is my standard operating procedure (if I have it available) on Helles and Southern German beers.  I used to also use 838 quite a bit.
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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2016, 12:56:13 pm »
Is it a matter of re-pitching or are you finding the trouble in the initial pitch of dry yeast?  I have noticed a little lemon in a pilsner made with 34/70, but not to the degree of making it totally unacceptable.  But I acknowledge that I much prefer repitching with liquid yeasts and 2206 is my standard operating procedure (if I have it available) on Helles and Southern German beers.  I used to also use 838 quite a bit.
Heh, any lemon in a pilsner, well the ones I try to emulate is. I couldn't get any of them using any process( initial pitch, actual correct pitch rates, reptitches, etc) to do what I needed them to. 2206, or at this point( many many generations) some variant of is my house yeast, and I love it to death. I used to use a blend of 833/838, and that was nice as well.

Offline denny

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2016, 01:04:41 pm »
What about all the people who haven't gotten lemon out of 34/70?
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The Beerery

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2016, 01:21:53 pm »
What about all the people who haven't gotten lemon out of 34/70?

Maybe some folks can't taste it? Maybe its how you ferment it?

Using the methods I outline here http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/cold-fermentation-practices/

It's like a lemon drop.

Offline denny

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2016, 01:26:27 pm »
Maybe some folks can't taste it? Maybe its how you ferment it?

Using the methods I outline here http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/cold-fermentation-practices/

It's like a lemon drop.

Obviously everyone has differences in their tasting, but there are so many people who don't have issues with it that I find it hard to believe it's the yeast itself rather than the way it's being used.
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Offline Iliff Ave

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2016, 01:29:47 pm »
Thankfully I have not gotten any lemon out of 34/70 yet
On Tap/Bottled: IPL, Adjunct Vienna, Golden Stout, Honey Lager
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The Beerery

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Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2016, 01:31:24 pm »
Maybe some folks can't taste it? Maybe its how you ferment it?

Using the methods I outline here http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/cold-fermentation-practices/

It's like a lemon drop.

Obviously everyone has differences in their tasting, but there are so many people who don't have issues with it that I find it hard to believe it's the yeast itself rather than the way it's being used.

I had little to no issues with it when I basically treated the beer like an ale. Fermented warm, ramped temp up towards the end of fermentation.. I guess using all the standards that are taught today. However when low oxygen methods are implemented you really get clarity into where process and ingredients, can hurt flavor. Thats when the issues arose.