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Author Topic: LODO Impact on Roast Flavor  (Read 13103 times)

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: LODO Impact on Roast Flavor
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2016, 04:21:47 pm »
Funny you should ask about this...

Last night I kegged up a batch of Irish stout I brewed a few weeks ago using LoDo methodology.  I've brewed this particular recipe numerous times in the past as I like having a dry stout on tap during the winter.   It wasn't a side-by-side comparison, so my perception is completely subjective.    But....   the malt flavor was pretty damn awesome with nice roasty flavors really coming through.     My personal experience is that if the beer tastes great at kegging when it's flat and warm,   it's going to be really great when it's cool and fizzy.   :)



So the roast was, if anything, better? Not overly roasty?

Well, I guess it depends on what you like.   My favorite Irish stout is Beamish, which is super-roasty.  So there you go.



Yeah, Beamish fan, too. I'll do some experimenting. Thanks for the info.
Jon H.

Offline beersk

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Re: LODO Impact on Roast Flavor
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2016, 08:27:32 am »
Yes, I'm finding that as little as 1% roasted malts have a huge effect. I have an altbier that is about 11 SRM on tap that used around 1% carafa III and the roast character is quite apparent to me. The same was true with my last Vienna lager that used around 1% for coloring and was about 10 SRM. Never had it be so apparent before low oxygen. My black IPA, which is 7% midnight wheat, is super coffee/chocolate, more than usual; it's definitely overpowering the hops that are usually much more pronounced.
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Offline bboy9000

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Re: LODO Impact on Roast Flavor
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2016, 08:29:34 am »
The IGORs at Experimental Brewing are doing a test with Brewtan.  Not completely LODO but one participant is brewing a CDA.  Maybe he'll be able to provide some insight.

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/experiments/brewtan-or-do-oxygen-scavenging-chemicals-change-beer-character
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Offline bjanat

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Re: LODO Impact on Roast Flavor
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2016, 08:35:44 am »
The IGORs at Experimental Brewing are doing a test with Brewtan.  Not completely LODO but one participant is brewing a CDA.  Maybe he'll be able to provide some insight.

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/experiments/brewtan-or-do-oxygen-scavenging-chemicals-change-beer-character
"Extremely complex methodology"? This hints that they're looking to prove it wrong, but without measuring the dissolved oxygen, it is hardly a valid experiment.


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Offline bboy9000

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LODO Impact on Roast Flavor
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2016, 08:54:10 am »
The IGORs at Experimental Brewing are doing a test with Brewtan.  Not completely LODO but one participant is brewing a CDA.  Maybe he'll be able to provide some insight.

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/experiments/brewtan-or-do-oxygen-scavenging-chemicals-change-beer-character
"Extremely complex methodology"? This hints that they're looking to prove it wrong, but without measuring the dissolved oxygen, it is hardly a valid experiment.


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They're testing to see if it affects the flavor.  Flavor is a subjective thing therefore measuring dissolved oxygen is irrelevant.  Is enough tasters can detect a difference in a blind the test then it would be valid. Granted the title is a little misleading so they might want to change that.  It would also be nice to see them all do the same recipe on the same system but that is a limitation.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 08:55:41 am by bboy9000 »
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: LODO Impact on Roast Flavor
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2016, 09:09:30 am »
Yes, I'm finding that as little as 1% roasted malts have a huge effect. I have an altbier that is about 11 SRM on tap that used around 1% carafa III and the roast character is quite apparent to me. The same was true with my last Vienna lager that used around 1% for coloring and was about 10 SRM. Never had it be so apparent before low oxygen. My black IPA, which is 7% midnight wheat, is super coffee/chocolate, more than usual; it's definitely overpowering the hops that are usually much more pronounced.


Definitely sounds like some rethinking is in order on using lodo and roasted malts together. If my stout is a tad roastier than I planned, it's generally ok because I like roasty stouts. But a beer that shouldn't be roasty ending up that way because I adjusted color with a little Carafa III or Midnight Wheat is another issue altogether. Gonna cut back on most, but it's kinda hard to adjust to your target color yet cut back, and retain the target color.
Jon H.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: LODO Impact on Roast Flavor
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2016, 09:35:57 am »
Yes, I'm finding that as little as 1% roasted malts have a huge effect. I have an altbier that is about 11 SRM on tap that used around 1% carafa III and the roast character is quite apparent to me. The same was true with my last Vienna lager that used around 1% for coloring and was about 10 SRM. Never had it be so apparent before low oxygen. My black IPA, which is 7% midnight wheat, is super coffee/chocolate, more than usual; it's definitely overpowering the hops that are usually much more pronounced.


Definitely sounds like some rethinking is in order on using lodo and roasted malts together. If my stout is a tad roastier than I planned, it's generally ok because I like roasty stouts. But a beer that shouldn't be roasty ending up that way because I adjusted color with a little Carafa III or Midnight Wheat is another issue altogether. Gonna cut back on most, but it's kinda hard to adjust to your target color yet cut back, and retain the target color.

Maybe some sinimar additions are in the future, huh? That could help you tighten up the color at least.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: LODO Impact on Roast Flavor
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2016, 09:42:51 am »
Maybe some sinimar additions are in the future, huh? That could help you tighten up the color at least.

Maybe. I've never used Sinamar, but I thought I'd read an account or two of it sometimes giving a mildly ashy flavor. I just wonder if lodo would amplify that, too. Maybe not.
Jon H.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: LODO Impact on Roast Flavor
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2016, 09:46:29 am »
Interesting. Wonder if those that reported it did not account for a proper mash pH? 

Offline pkrone

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Re: LODO Impact on Roast Flavor
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2016, 09:51:29 am »
Yes, I'm finding that as little as 1% roasted malts have a huge effect. I have an altbier that is about 11 SRM on tap that used around 1% carafa III and the roast character is quite apparent to me. The same was true with my last Vienna lager that used around 1% for coloring and was about 10 SRM. Never had it be so apparent before low oxygen. My black IPA, which is 7% midnight wheat, is super coffee/chocolate, more than usual; it's definitely overpowering the hops that are usually much more pronounced.


Definitely sounds like some rethinking is in order on using lodo and roasted malts together. If my stout is a tad roastier than I planned, it's generally ok because I like roasty stouts. But a beer that shouldn't be roasty ending up that way because I adjusted color with a little Carafa III or Midnight Wheat is another issue altogether. Gonna cut back on most, but it's kinda hard to adjust to your target color yet cut back, and retain the target color.

Yeah, too roasty in certain dark beers is a problem.  When doing a schwarzbier I add the carafa near the end of the mash to just get color and minimal roastiness.   Haven't brewed one doing LoDo, though.  Time for some testing!
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: LODO Impact on Roast Flavor
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2016, 09:58:35 am »
Interesting. Wonder if those that reported it did not account for a proper mash pH? 

I wondered the same.
Jon H.

Offline denny

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Re: LODO Impact on Roast Flavor
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2016, 10:15:18 am »
The IGORs at Experimental Brewing are doing a test with Brewtan.  Not completely LODO but one participant is brewing a CDA.  Maybe he'll be able to provide some insight.

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/experiments/brewtan-or-do-oxygen-scavenging-chemicals-change-beer-character
"Extremely complex methodology"? This hints that they're looking to prove it wrong, but without measuring the dissolved oxygen, it is hardly a valid experiment.


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We're testing Brewtan B, not LODO.n We're not looking to prove anything right or wrong....we simply want to see what, if any, the effects of Brewtan B are.
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Offline denny

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Re: LODO Impact on Roast Flavor
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2016, 10:18:21 am »
The IGORs at Experimental Brewing are doing a test with Brewtan.  Not completely LODO but one participant is brewing a CDA.  Maybe he'll be able to provide some insight.

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/experiments/brewtan-or-do-oxygen-scavenging-chemicals-change-beer-character
"Extremely complex methodology"? This hints that they're looking to prove it wrong, but without measuring the dissolved oxygen, it is hardly a valid experiment.


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They're testing to see if it affects the flavor.  Flavor is a subjective thing therefore measuring dissolved oxygen is irrelevant.  Is enough tasters can detect a difference in a blind the test then it would be valid. Granted the title is a little misleading so they might want to change that.  It would also be nice to see them all do the same recipe on the same system but that is a limitation.

Obviously there's no way everybody can use the same system.  We asked them to use a recipe that they're familiar with so that they can accurately assess the effect.  We want to know how broad the application of Brewtan is, not how it affects a single style.
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Offline denny

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Re: LODO Impact on Roast Flavor
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2016, 10:19:13 am »
Maybe some sinimar additions are in the future, huh? That could help you tighten up the color at least.

Maybe. I've never used Sinamar, but I thought I'd read an account or two of it sometimes giving a mildly ashy flavor. I just wonder if lodo would amplify that, too. Maybe not.

FWIW, I have never found that with Sinamar.
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Offline denny

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Re: LODO Impact on Roast Flavor
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2016, 10:20:05 am »
Interesting. Wonder if those that reported it did not account for a proper mash pH?

I don't account for Sinamar in my mash pH because it doesn't go in the mash.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell