[dilluh98]

I was thinking about the yeast method for low oxygen strike water... What about a hybrid approach. Let the beer ferment out. In a bottling bucket get some bottling yeast working on a corn sugar priming solution such that it's low oxygen and already has yeast activity when you put the fully fermented beer on it.

[Big Monk]

I was thinking about the yeast method for low oxygen strike water... What about a hybrid approach. Let the beer ferment out. In a bottling bucket get some bottling yeast working on a corn sugar priming solution such that it's low oxygen and already has yeast activity when you put the fully fermented beer on it.

To me there is something about using the extract itself to do the work.

[bboy9000]

To me there is something about using the extract itself to do the work.

Reinheitsgebot?

[The Beerery]

To me there is something about using the extract itself to do the work.

Reinheitsgebot?

I doubt it. Quality control.  I can easily pick up the differences in a beers that's were forced carbed, spunded, spiesed, and sugared.

[denny]

I doubt it. Quality control.  I can easily pick up the differences in a beers that's were forced carbed, spunded, spiesed, and sugared.

You're the only person I know who can do that.  I had eight people try a number of years ago and none could detect a difference nor had any preference.

[The Beerery]

I could not tell a difference when normal brewing practices were used.  Low oxygen it's night and day.


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[dilluh98]

To me there is something about using the extract itself to do the work.

Reinheitsgebot?

I doubt it. Quality control.  I can easily pick up the differences in a beers that's were forced carbed, spunded, spiesed, and sugared.

How close do you think spiesed and spunded are? Spunding for bottlers is really kind of a PITA considering the timing issue. I tried krausening for bottling a few times and didn't like the results but I think it had more to do with post-bottling temp-control than the process itself.

[The Beerery]

Not that close. I realize spunding is a pita for bottlers. But when I ran my tests of spunded vs spiesed, I much preferred spunded. The oxidation that happens when the beer is allowed to complete fermentation, then a little oxidized when the spiese is added waiting for the yeast to activate and scavenge( or use your sulfite reserves) are apparent when compared side by side. There is no replacement for spunding that I have found yet.


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[dilluh98]

How much yeast are we talking with spunding in a bottle? So much so that you get a bit of gushing from nucleation on all the yeast at the bottom of the bottle?

[Phil_M]

Not that close. I realize spunding is a pita for bottlers. But when I ran my tests of spunded vs spiesed, I much preferred spunded. The oxidation that happens when the beer is allowed to complete fermentation, then a little oxidized when the spiese is added waiting for the yeast to activate and scavenge( or use your sulfite reserves) are apparent when compared side by side. There is no replacement for spunding that I have found yet.


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Spiese may suit my purposes however. What I'm aiming for is more controlled oxidation-I want the oxidation to happen in the cask, after venting. (I know, oxidation on purpose may seem like a terrible idea to some. This style requires it to taste right as much as Helles requires low oxygen methods.)

The issue has been the best way to achieve this in the bottle. Get too much oxygen in, and it's always going to taste that way. Allow a (very) limited about in, perhaps this might work.

[Big Monk]

How much yeast are we talking with spunding in a bottle? So much so that you get a bit of gushing from nucleation on all the yeast at the bottom of the bottle?

It's actively fermenting beer so you'll get whatever is in suspension. 

[Big Monk]

Not that close. I realize spunding is a pita for bottlers. But when I ran my tests of spunded vs spiesed, I much preferred spunded. The oxidation that happens when the beer is allowed to complete fermentation, then a little oxidized when the spiese is added waiting for the yeast to activate and scavenge( or use your sulfite reserves) are apparent when compared side by side. There is no replacement for spunding that I have found yet.


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Spiese may suit my purposes however. What I'm aiming for is more controlled oxidation-I want the oxidation to happen in the cask, after venting. (I know, oxidation on purpose may seem like a terrible idea to some. This style requires it to taste right as much as Helles requires low oxygen methods.)

The issue has been the best way to achieve this in the bottle. Get too much oxygen in, and it's always going to taste that way. Allow a (very) limited about in, perhaps this might work.

Could work. For me it's all about as little Oxygen as possible. One of the reasons this is so exciting is to try and brew Trappist style beers with Low Oxygen.

Bryan has said before that ALL beers benefit from Low Oxygen brewing.

The bottle represents probably the most effective packaging vessel in terms of Low Oxygen. Obviously people keg because of the volumes and the ease of serving but kegs have multiple possible points of ingress compared to the bottle cap.

This isn't hard and fast stuff but for me it's the only way. I brew 1.25 gallon batches so kegging is not my thing. Bottle spunding is the way, I just need to experiment with it.

[Phil_M]

I agree to a point, but some beers do benefit from slight oxidation. Just think about a nice old cork-finished bottle of Chimay Blue. I personally find a little oxidation helps British styles smooth out a bit. Definitely isn't appropriate for American styles.

Part of my hope for the low oxygen methods is getting things precise enough allow a controlled, limited oxidation.


But I'm still a long way from any of this. Due to the limitations of my brewing space and equipment, I have to pour from wort from a "grant" to the kettle during mash out. I have plans to fix this, however.

[Big Monk]

I agree to a point, but some beers do benefit from slight oxidation. Just think about a nice old cork-finished bottle of Chimay Blue. I personally find a little oxidation helps British styles smooth out a bit. Definitely isn't appropriate for American styles.

Part of my hope for the low oxygen methods is getting things precise enough allow a controlled, limited oxidation.


But I'm still a long way from any of this. Due to the limitations of my brewing space and equipment, I have to pour from wort from a "grant" to the kettle during mash out. I have plans to fix this, however.

I agree for the purpose of aging and maturation the big bottles are nice. I drink a lot of 33cl Chimay bottles as well.

I'm going to be trying some different stuff on these styles. The bottle spunding is going to be just part of the equation. Low Oxygen caramalt and blended base malt flavors are another. No syrups as well.

[narcout]

This isn't hard and fast stuff but for me it's the only way. I brew 1.25 gallon batches so kegging is not my thing. Bottle spunding is the way, I just need to experiment with it.

How are you currently packaging your low O2 beers?