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Author Topic: WLP029 Kolsch yeast Strain  (Read 4084 times)

Offline bayareabrewer

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Re: WLP029 Kolsch yeast Strain
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2016, 03:16:50 pm »
I think diacetyl is a misunderstood boogeyman for many beer tasters, judges or not. I wonder if they keyed in on the beer tasting "different" due to the use of Munich in the grist...couldn't identify what it was so it "had to be diacetyl."

In my experience, there's nothing iffy about diacetyl. Buttery, and slippery. And honestly, not always a bad thing, some beers benefit from it. (Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale is a great example.)

I overheard a judge reading over a style he was judging and say "well, this should be interesting, I've never tried this kind of beer before"

That made me lose faith in most competitions.

Offline Ellismr

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Re: WLP029 Kolsch yeast Strain
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2016, 03:31:16 pm »
LMAO


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Offline Stevie

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Re: WLP029 Kolsch yeast Strain
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2016, 03:42:16 pm »
But a competent judge should be able to judge to the style without knowing it. The text should tell him or her what they are judging. Does this fit, yes or no.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: WLP029 Kolsch yeast Strain
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2016, 04:07:59 pm »
I still enter comps on occasion, and I think the judging is just inherently uneven, unavoidably. Too many variables - varying experience level, palate fatigue, personal preference within a style, etc. But there are some great judges out there (several on this forum) and I usually get back scoresheets that are spot on with what I expected, good or bad. But you still get the scenario like where I recently medaled in a fairly big comp in Milwaukee for a Marzen, sent the beer to a different smaller comp and scored only 32 with comments like "slight diacetyl?" (yes, the question mark was there on the sheet)" and "needed more malt character". There was zero diacetyl in the beer (neither of the much higher ranking judges in Milwaukee noted it, nor a judge friend of mine) and the beer was very malty, unanimously agreed upon except by this guy. Whatever, part of the game. Does get old, though.
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Offline bayareabrewer

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Re: WLP029 Kolsch yeast Strain
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2016, 04:13:27 pm »
But a competent judge should be able to judge to the style without knowing it. The text should tell him or her what they are judging. Does this fit, yes or no.

very true, but I guess I would be much more comfortable and apt to take a judges evaluation of my beer more serious if he has actually tasted a good example of the style before.

Offline bayareabrewer

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Re: WLP029 Kolsch yeast Strain
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2016, 04:20:26 pm »
this is just my opinion, but it seems a lot of the winners are always on the bigger, bolder edge of the style as well and best of show is often some (IMHO) bizarre beer like jalapeno raspberry coconut IPA aged on eucalyptus wood or something like that.

Just once I'd like to see a lighter, smaller and delicate beer that was exquisitely produced win.

Offline bboy9000

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Re: WLP029 Kolsch yeast Strain
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2016, 09:54:37 pm »
I think diacetyl is a misunderstood boogeyman for many beer tasters, judges or not. I wonder if they keyed in on the beer tasting "different" due to the use of Munich in the grist...couldn't identify what it was so it "had to be diacetyl."
^This what immediately came to mind before reading your comment Phil.  The judge tasted some of the caramel from the Munich malt possibly combined with the fruitiness of the Kolsch yeast gave the judge a flavor he/she didn't recognize.  The judge probably immediately thought, "Off flavor!"
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Offline Phil_M

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Re: WLP029 Kolsch yeast Strain
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2016, 05:03:34 am »
this is just my opinion, but it seems a lot of the winners are always on the bigger, bolder edge of the style as well and best of show is often some (IMHO) bizarre beer like jalapeno raspberry coconut IPA aged on eucalyptus wood or something like that.

Just once I'd like to see a lighter, smaller and delicate beer that was exquisitely produced win.

I'd agree, but if you look at the average craft beer enthusiast, those are also the styles they tend to prefer. This won't affect every judge, sure, but I'm sure that the majority favor their personal preferences at least slightly.

I think diacetyl is a misunderstood boogeyman for many beer tasters, judges or not. I wonder if they keyed in on the beer tasting "different" due to the use of Munich in the grist...couldn't identify what it was so it "had to be diacetyl."
^This what immediately came to mind before reading your comment Phil.  The judge tasted some of the caramel from the Munich malt possibly combined with the fruitiness of the Kolsch yeast gave the judge a flavor he/she didn't recognize.  The judge probably immediately thought, "Off flavor!"

Exactly. I'm just kinda peeved by diacetyl being the scapegoat. First off, it's not a difficult off flavor to be certain about. The aforementioned Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale being a wonderful (and enjoyable) way to familiarize yourself with the flavor. And something I get tired of hearing is that diacetyl is evil in all beers. It just isn't. In a lager or American ale, sure. But I've heard people claiming that the Nut Brown Ale is flawed because it shows diacetyl. Back in the old BJCP style guides were the commercial examples were ranked based on what was deemed the best example, it was second only to Newcastle Brown...
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Re: WLP029 Kolsch yeast Strain
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2016, 07:15:04 am »
I get a sour-y, slightly buttery, slightly muddy flavor from munich when used in small amounts( which is why I dislike it in pale beers), so it could be mistaken as diacetyl I spose. Can't fault the BJCP folks, they are literally trained to just pick out faults. Something tastes different, the brain goes directly to finding the fault that is closest.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: WLP029 Kolsch yeast Strain
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2016, 07:22:44 am »
Can't fault the BJCP folks, they are literally trained to just pick out faults. Something tastes different, the brain goes directly to finding the fault that is closest.

I totally disagree.  Judges are trained to describe what they taste.  If they just settle for any old off-flavor because they're unable to describe what they're tasting, they've failed miserably.

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Offline majorvices

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Re: WLP029 Kolsch yeast Strain
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2016, 08:34:07 am »
Another thing to consider is how the beer was stored. I have had bottled beer show signs of diacetyl after only a couple of days at warmish temp (80 degrees) while beer that was stored cold showed no signs. Oxidation during bottle can cause diacetyl if the precursor is present.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: WLP029 Kolsch yeast Strain
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2016, 09:44:00 am »
Another thing to consider is how the beer was stored. I have had bottled beer show signs of diacetyl after only a couple of days at warmish temp (80 degrees) while beer that was stored cold showed no signs. Oxidation during bottle can cause diacetyl if the precursor is present.
Exactly what I was going to say. I have had it happen, and had a bottle set aside so I could check after reading the sheets, and yes, it had diacetyl. The keg was still fine.

Diacetyl? I have a high threshold. I get it in a beer at high levels, but I often let the other judge comment on that, unless I detect a slick mouthfeel, or taste "butter".

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Offline santoch

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Re: WLP029 Kolsch yeast Strain
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2016, 09:25:11 pm »
Have you tasted your Kolsch at warmer than ice cold temps?  Beers can produce flavors and aromas when warmer that do not appear when the beers are right out of the fridge.
I have seen beers at BOS tables come out beautifully clean when first poured that end up smelling and tasting like a butter bomb after warming up.  (phenolic or ester bombs, too).
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