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Author Topic: Belgian Golden Strong  (Read 14748 times)

Big Monk

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Re: Belgian Golden Strong
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2016, 11:59:33 am »
The age old debate.

Fortunately 2 steps is all you need: β to α, α to MO.

I do 90 min. at 148, then add 190ish sparge water for a pseudo mashout.  Works for me.

Have you ever direct fire step mashed? The sweep through the ranges at 1 °C/min has a lot to do with the benefits of the step mash.

Not trying to change your mind but that was an "ah ha" when I first realized it.

Offline dbarber

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Re: Belgian Golden Strong
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2016, 12:05:29 pm »


I do 90 min. at 148, then add 190ish sparge water for a pseudo mashout.  Works for me.

This is my mash schedule as well.  Recipe is just continental pilsner malt and table sugar. 
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Belgian Golden Strong
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2016, 12:07:17 pm »

Trying to clone Tripel Karmeliet?  Fantastic beer...


Yeah, that is a great Tripel. Awesome stuff.
Jon H.

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Re: Belgian Golden Strong
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2016, 12:46:20 pm »
The age old debate.

Fortunately 2 steps is all you need: β to α, α to MO.

I do 90 min. at 148, then add 190ish sparge water for a pseudo mashout.  Works for me.

Have you ever direct fire step mashed? The sweep through the ranges at 1 °C/min has a lot to do with the benefits of the step mash.

Not trying to change your mind but that was an "ah ha" when I first realized it.

Don't recall if I've done it direct fired.  Also don't have a way to do that, so the likelihood of it happening is low.
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Big Monk

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Re: Belgian Golden Strong
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2016, 01:01:36 pm »
The age old debate.

Fortunately 2 steps is all you need: β to α, α to MO.

I do 90 min. at 148, then add 190ish sparge water for a pseudo mashout.  Works for me.

Have you ever direct fire step mashed? The sweep through the ranges at 1 °C/min has a lot to do with the benefits of the step mash.

Not trying to change your mind but that was an "ah ha" when I first realized it.

Don't recall if I've done it direct fired.  Also don't have a way to do that, so the likelihood of it happening is low.

Understood. Just mentioned it because there is a big difference in the time it takes to reach step temps with infusions and gradually sweeping across a range of temperatures on the way to a step.

The Beerery

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Re: Belgian Golden Strong
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2016, 01:18:10 pm »
With the ease for me to step, I can complete a full Hochkurz step mash in 80 minutes, and get all the benefits which lies within. I do it for every beer I make.

Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Belgian Golden Strong
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2016, 01:37:05 pm »
I was considering a Narziss Enhanced Double Decoction.  Thoughts? Anyone used this mashing method?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 02:44:17 pm by JJeffers09 »
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Online denny

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Re: Belgian Golden Strong
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2016, 02:13:33 pm »

Understood. Just mentioned it because there is a big difference in the time it takes to reach step temps with infusions and gradually sweeping across a range of temperatures on the way to a step.

Is it bad if I hit the step temps more quickly than the rate you described?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

The Beerery

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Re: Belgian Golden Strong
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2016, 02:15:41 pm »

Understood. Just mentioned it because there is a big difference in the time it takes to reach step temps with infusions and gradually sweeping across a range of temperatures on the way to a step.

Is it bad if I hit the step temps more quickly than the rate you described?

Literature says it can harm the enzymes is you step too fast. Because of this the standard is 1c/min raise.

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Re: Belgian Golden Strong
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2016, 02:34:55 pm »

Understood. Just mentioned it because there is a big difference in the time it takes to reach step temps with infusions and gradually sweeping across a range of temperatures on the way to a step.

Is it bad if I hit the step temps more quickly than the rate you described?

Literature says it can harm the enzymes is you step too fast. Because of this the standard is 1c/min raise.

What would be a sign of enzyme damage?  I respect the lit, but my experience is that I've had no issues doing faster steps through infusion.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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The Beerery

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Re: Belgian Golden Strong
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2016, 02:38:48 pm »

Understood. Just mentioned it because there is a big difference in the time it takes to reach step temps with infusions and gradually sweeping across a range of temperatures on the way to a step.

Is it bad if I hit the step temps more quickly than the rate you described?

Literature says it can harm the enzymes is you step too fast. Because of this the standard is 1c/min raise.

What would be a sign of enzyme damage?  I respect the lit, but my experience is that I've had no issues doing faster steps through infusion.

Right, I referenced literature here, as I don't personally have any data to add. I have my system setup to step at 1c/min as its software based and easy to do. But I can't say I notice a difference at 2c/min.  Obviously, traditionally with decoctions you will get a much faster ramp than that as well so, who knows.

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Re: Belgian Golden Strong
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2016, 02:43:13 pm »

Right, I referenced literature here, as I don't personally have any data to add. I have my system setup to step at 1c/min as its software based and easy to do. But I can't say I notice a difference at 2c/min.  Obviously, traditionally with decoctions you will get a much faster ramp than that as well so, who knows.

OK, then experience wins and lit loses this one.
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The Beerery

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Re: Belgian Golden Strong
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2016, 02:50:41 pm »

Right, I referenced literature here, as I don't personally have any data to add. I have my system setup to step at 1c/min as its software based and easy to do. But I can't say I notice a difference at 2c/min.  Obviously, traditionally with decoctions you will get a much faster ramp than that as well so, who knows.

OK, then experience wins and lit loses this one.

Well, I don't doubt there are very valid reasons with lab results that prove it. So I wouldn't say it loses. The thing with science is even if you don't believe in it, its still true. So while you or I can't say we can't perceive a difference, it doesn't make it invalid. If it was scientifically invalid it wouldn't be in the literature, see where I am going with this? I realize this is where we differ, if you don't taste/see a result you don't do it. But I still do it cause its "best practice" and may help, but doesn't hurt. No disrespect meant in that, but thats where I am coming from.

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Re: Belgian Golden Strong
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2016, 03:15:09 pm »
Well, I don't doubt there are very valid reasons with lab results that prove it. So I wouldn't say it loses. The thing with science is even if you don't believe in it, its still true. So while you or I can't say we can't perceive a difference, it doesn't make it invalid. If it was scientifically invalid it wouldn't be in the literature, see where I am going with this? I realize this is where we differ, if you don't taste/see a result you don't do it. But I still do it cause its "best practice" and may help, but doesn't hurt. No disrespect meant in that, but thats where I am coming from.

Right and "loses" probably wasn't the best word to use.  But like you say, if I can't tell it makes a difference, I don't do it.  That's "brewing pragmatism".  Good thing about homebrewing is that we all get to choose what we want to do!
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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Belgian Golden Strong
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2016, 10:59:43 am »
So no on the enhanced double decoction?  Only one way to find out I suppose.
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