Author Topic: Inline Aeration Setup Questions/Concerns  (Read 1650 times)

Offline blatz

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Inline Aeration Setup Questions/Concerns
« on: December 19, 2016, 04:37:21 PM »
Looking at this: https://www.morebeer.com/products/stainless-inline-oxygenation-assembly.html 

Thoughts on an inline aeration stone?  I currently use a stone/wand combination, but the coolness factor of inline is intriguing to me.  My biggest concerns would be that I recirculate through my chillers (2 ganged SS CFC) during the last 20-30 min to sanitize the chillers -

1). if I don't have the oxygen hooked up, isn't the wort flowing through going to leak out the valve connect to the stone

2). is the stone going to get clogged rather quickly with the proteins and hop matter circulating through?

I imagine that inline aeration is probably more effective/efficient that a wand, but these two concerns have me thinking I should stick with simple?
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Offline beersk

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Re: Inline Aeration Setup Questions/Concerns
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2016, 07:15:05 PM »
What you said, and sanitizing it would be a b!tch too, I would think. I don't know if you were trying to adapt to low oxygen, but aerating before pitching the yeast isn't recommended.
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Inline Aeration Setup Questions/Concerns
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2016, 07:20:06 PM »
While I would argue to anyone that aerating with out a DO meter is like playing with a Russian roulette, having a stone directly in the wort is going to be even more tricky. I automate everything I can, and I use a wand and a DO meter.
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Offline mchrispen

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Re: Inline Aeration Setup Questions/Concerns
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2016, 07:21:55 PM »
For what it is worth, I stopped using mine and now simply use a sintered stone wand after I pitch the yeast.


Having serious issues with tap water temperatures (thanks Central Texas), I couldn't (and still struggle with) consistently knock out at the same flow rates. One batch would go very slowly (say 45 minutes) to get to a reasonable temperature, and the next might go much faster (say 30 minutes). The inconsistent results going into the fermenter, even when I could adjust the flow rate of the oxygen via my regulator, were frustrating. When I got my DO meter earlier this year, I was seeing batches with just 3.5 PPM and as high as 8 PPM. Adding to this - I often needed to let the wort cool further for a few hours until it was acceptable for pitching - and I don't like having the DO there without the yeast active, even at the cooler temperatures.


With the wand, I can set a timer and a flow rate and have more consistent results. As you said - simple.


If you do put the stone inline, make sure to pull it each time and clean it well. I had scenarios where it got plugged up even with flushing and the usual PBW/StarSan runs through the chiller.

Offline blatz

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Re: Inline Aeration Setup Questions/Concerns
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2016, 07:23:49 PM »
yeah, I agree with you guys - seems like its cool but likely to cause me many more problems.  I think i'll just stick with the wand I've had for years - Bryan I just picked up a 20# O2 tank and ordered the same regulator you have from Williams.

Hopefully Santa brings me a DO meter, and if not, I'll likely be my own Santa
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Inline Aeration Setup Questions/Concerns
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2016, 07:25:32 PM »
yeah, I agree with you guys - seems like its cool but likely to cause me many more problems.  I think i'll just stick with the wand I've had for years - Bryan I just picked up a 20# O2 tank and ordered the same regulator you have from Williams.

Hopefully Santa brings me a DO meter, and if not, I'll likely be my own Santa

YAY!  ;D
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Offline blatz

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Re: Inline Aeration Setup Questions/Concerns
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2016, 08:01:35 PM »

With the wand, I can set a timer and a flow rate and have more consistent results. As you said - simple.

do you have a good ratio of flow rate/time/batch size or something of the like?
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Inline Aeration Setup Questions/Concerns
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2016, 08:15:17 PM »

With the wand, I can set a timer and a flow rate and have more consistent results. As you said - simple.

do you have a good ratio of flow rate/time/batch size or something of the like?

I detail it here:
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/oxygenation-of-yeast/

Herr, wirf Hirn vom Himmel!
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Check us out at www.lowoxygenbrewing.com (Now with forums)
"Consistently successful brewers are invariably the ones who operate low oxygen systems." -George Fix Circa 1999
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Offline smkranz

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Re: Inline Aeration Setup Questions/Concerns
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2016, 10:52:10 PM »
I have used Blichmann's inline oxygenation kit for 3 or so batches, and I've had no problems yet.  I sanitize my plate chiller and lines by flooding them with hot wort after whirlpooling, and leaving it sit for just a minute before turning on the chilling water, then the pump, and then the oxygen.

With the addition of the inline oxygen kit, hot wort does enter the stone and the O2 supply line briefly until the oxygen is turned on.  This is also mentioned in the Blichmann manual.  I really can't see the stone getting clogged just because of that, if it's properly cleaned and dried after use.  But I could certainly be proven wrong after many more batches.  Any wort that does seep into the stone is already very clear, after whirlpooling and passing through the boil screen in my Blichmann G1 kettle.

I clean the stone as soon as possible after use by dunking it in a fully dissolved hot PBW solution, sucking and blowing on the end of the supply hose to pull hot cleaning solution in and out of the stone a few times, then leaving it sit for a couple hours before a final flush with hot water.  I've done the same thing more than once with my old stone & wand combination which sat in a carboy several times without positive oxygen pressure on it.
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Offline Stevie

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Inline Aeration Setup Questions/Concerns
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2016, 10:57:14 PM »
This is a golden example of techniques and processes that are needed at commercial scale but are pretty much pointless at the homebrew scale. Commercial breweries use inline oxygen because it is the best way to oxygenate huge volumes of wort. We at the homebrew scale are fortunate enough to be dealing in small volumes that can be handled easily with simple tools.

Inline oxygen is like using a box truck to get your weekly groceries.

Offline mchrispen

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Re: Inline Aeration Setup Questions/Concerns
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2016, 11:17:35 PM »
I do something similar to Bryan.


I have a medical oxygen regulator (similar to the William's Brewing kit). With it I can control the flow rate down to 0.125 liters per minute. Before I got my meter, I was measuring my batch size, converting to liters (12 gallons = 44.3 liters) and running the wand at the slowest setting until I had what I calculated to be between 6-8 ppm. So I would count off the minutes until I had about 0.3-0.4 liters of O2 expelled, just 2-3 minutes. Of course, there is loss of the O2 that breaks the surface, even with the smallest flow rate and the .5u stone, fine foam begins forming, which I wasn't accounting. This is with wort at 46-48F.


When I got the meter, it was clear I was about 30% below my target PPM, so I now run longer and confirm with the meter. It takes me about 7 minutes at that lowest O2 flow rate to saturate 12 gallons of 1.045 wort to a consistent 6-6.5 ppm reading. If my regulator (and my suspect math) is correct, that is about 0.88 liters of O2 out of the bottle for 0.27 liters of DO in the wort (at 6 ppm), losing roughly half a liter. Almost makes me want to do this under pressure in the conical. Almost. O2 is cheap. I suspect that I could hit 8 PPM with a 10-15 minute aeration, but I am afraid I would be wasting O2 at that point.


Rate of saturation seems slow a bit as well... so it takes nearly 2 minutes to push from 5 ppm to just over 6 ppm. I tried to saturate at 8 ppm, but gave up after my fermenter seemed to want to just fill up foam. If the gravity is higher than 1.060 (haven't done a lager that high yet), I plan to aerate a second time about 4 hours after the initial pitch and aeration. I have tried to keep more or less in line with the O2 recommendations of Boulton and Quain Fermentation book and the Yeast book.


I don't brew many ales any more, so not sure what the dissolution rates would be with warmer temperatures and potentially higher gravity wort.


With inline, I was taking as long as 45 minutes with the wort exposed to the stone, even at the lowest rate and completely saturating the wort... and wasting a lot of O2.


Hope that helps.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 11:20:34 PM by mchrispen »

Offline blatz

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Re: Inline Aeration Setup Questions/Concerns
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2016, 11:23:56 PM »

With the wand, I can set a timer and a flow rate and have more consistent results. As you said - simple.

do you have a good ratio of flow rate/time/batch size or something of the like?

I detail it here:
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/oxygenation-of-yeast/

danke

i've decided to forgo using an inline and will just use a low flow and start to experiment with it and find what works.

thanks for the reassurance and data points, fellas!
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Offline Nwsurfkid

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Re: Inline Aeration Setup Questions/Concerns
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2016, 01:24:58 AM »
Keeping it simple always makes the best beer.
Personally, I'm usually skeptical about a lot of homebrew "techniques" and the actual improvement on final profile...usually comes down to, "hey, look look what new toy I have"...$$$cha-ching$$$....but that's just some random opinion.

As mentioned a few posts back, and sums it up well...this is like using a box truck for groceries.

But if that's your ticket to tinkering and beer happiness, then brew with all the inline DO you want.


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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Inline Aeration Setup Questions/Concerns
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2016, 02:49:54 AM »
I converted my Liquid Bread hose-mounted stone into an in-line unit (which cost about $5) and have been using it for about 7 years. I don't know that it improved anything, but I don't tend to overdose with oxygen. I probably get 15 to 20 batches with the regular red oxygen cylinder. Since there is about 20 ft of hose after the in-line unit, I'm pretty sure I achieve decent incorporation of the oxygen that I do add. I find its nice to be able to see the oxygen inflow and be able to avoid oversaturating the wort. I do believe that overdosing with O2 can lead to fusel production and that guides my desire to avoid overdosing.

Is in-line oxygenation better? Hmm, I don't know. But I do know that I can avoid opening the fermenter by completing this step as I'm chilling and transferring the wort.

By the way, my in-line unit is small enough to fit in a small pot so that I can boil the whole thing occassionally. Most of the time, I sanitize the unit along with the plate chiller by pumping Starsan or Iodophor through them, along with the wort tubing. I know I don't get infections, so that seems to work.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 01:59:55 PM by mabrungard »
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Offline chinaski

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Re: Inline Aeration Setup Questions/Concerns
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2016, 03:50:55 AM »
This is a golden example of techniques and processes that are needed at commercial scale but are pretty much pointless at the homebrew scale. Commercial breweries use inline oxygen because it is the best way to oxygenate huge volumes of wort. We at the homebrew scale are fortunate enough to be dealing in small volumes that can be handled easily with simple tools.

Inline oxygen is like using a box truck to get your weekly groceries.

I tend to agree.  But more power to those that enjoy using more equipment.  Not for me.