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That also has implications for us using invert syrup in our British Ales.Maybe that's why I'm finding more beers "too clean".
Quote from: Phil_M on December 22, 2016, 04:49:27 amThat also has implications for us using invert syrup in our British Ales.Maybe that's why I'm finding more beers "too clean".What's your pitching rate look like? In my experience, lowering my pitching rate has had the biggest influence in getting more esters into standard gravity ales like hefeweizens and English ales. As a matter of fact, I've always noticed that my standard gravity Belgian ales (like Belgian pale ales, for example) have less yeast character than I'm expecting. I'm pretty sure it's because I don't lower my pitch rate for those ales the way I do for a hefe or bitter. Big Belgians and saisons can probably get away with a typical ale-sized pitch, since you have gravity and/or attenuation to push the ester production.
Quote from: erockrph on December 23, 2016, 06:59:47 amQuote from: Phil_M on December 22, 2016, 04:49:27 amThat also has implications for us using invert syrup in our British Ales.Maybe that's why I'm finding more beers "too clean".What's your pitching rate look like? In my experience, lowering my pitching rate has had the biggest influence in getting more esters into standard gravity ales like hefeweizens and English ales. As a matter of fact, I've always noticed that my standard gravity Belgian ales (like Belgian pale ales, for example) have less yeast character than I'm expecting. I'm pretty sure it's because I don't lower my pitch rate for those ales the way I do for a hefe or bitter. Big Belgians and saisons can probably get away with a typical ale-sized pitch, since you have gravity and/or attenuation to push the ester production.I was crunching the numbers given in BLAM for pitching rates of Duvel and Rochefort and it was scary low. I think Duvel was 0.44 M/ml/°P and Rochefort pitched 0.73 M/ml/°P for all 3 beers.
Quote from: Big Monk on December 23, 2016, 08:02:51 amQuote from: erockrph on December 23, 2016, 06:59:47 amQuote from: Phil_M on December 22, 2016, 04:49:27 amThat also has implications for us using invert syrup in our British Ales.Maybe that's why I'm finding more beers "too clean".What's your pitching rate look like? In my experience, lowering my pitching rate has had the biggest influence in getting more esters into standard gravity ales like hefeweizens and English ales. As a matter of fact, I've always noticed that my standard gravity Belgian ales (like Belgian pale ales, for example) have less yeast character than I'm expecting. I'm pretty sure it's because I don't lower my pitch rate for those ales the way I do for a hefe or bitter. Big Belgians and saisons can probably get away with a typical ale-sized pitch, since you have gravity and/or attenuation to push the ester production.I was crunching the numbers given in BLAM for pitching rates of Duvel and Rochefort and it was scary low. I think Duvel was 0.44 M/ml/°P and Rochefort pitched 0.73 M/ml/°P for all 3 beers.Wow! I didn't realize that even the bigger Belgians got pitched at such a low rate. I generally brew Belgians in series, starting with a moderate gravity beer and working up to a Quad/BGSA. I've always pitched at a typical ale rate for my first beer, thinking I needed a big pitch for the big beers. I'm starting to think that it is more yeast health and acclimation to higher ABV that is what I need rather than sheer pitch size, and I can try pitching at my usual weissbier rate in the future.Thanks for sharing that!
I was crunching the numbers given in BLAM for pitching rates of Duvel and Rochefort and it was scary low. I think Duvel was 0.44 M/ml/°P and Rochefort pitched 0.73 M/ml/°P for all 3 beers.
Quote from: Big Monk on December 23, 2016, 08:02:51 amQuote from: erockrph on December 23, 2016, 06:59:47 amQuote from: Phil_M on December 22, 2016, 04:49:27 amThat also has implications for us using invert syrup in our British Ales.Maybe that's why I'm finding more beers "too clean".What's your pitching rate look like? In my experience, lowering my pitching rate has had the biggest influence in getting more esters into standard gravity ales like hefeweizens and English ales. As a matter of fact, I've always noticed that my standard gravity Belgian ales (like Belgian pale ales, for example) have less yeast character than I'm expecting. I'm pretty sure it's because I don't lower my pitch rate for those ales the way I do for a hefe or bitter. Big Belgians and saisons can probably get away with a typical ale-sized pitch, since you have gravity and/or attenuation to push the ester production.I was crunching the numbers given in BLAM for pitching rates of Duvel and Rochefort and it was scary low. I think Duvel was 0.44 M/ml/°P and Rochefort pitched 0.73 M/ml/°P for all 3 beers.Wow! I didn't realize that even the bigger Belgians got pitched at such a low rate. I'm starting to think that it is more yeast health and acclimation to higher ABV that is what I need rather than sheer pitch size
Obviously the one to the left was my 4; more or less same amount of esters as the 6.
Quote from: homoeccentricus on December 23, 2016, 03:51:52 pmObviously the one to the left was my 4; more or less same amount of esters as the 6.Admittedly, I Don't know much about Belgians, but is this what you were shooting for? Do you feel lownoxygen helped you? Have you made this normally before?