Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: Low Oxygen Conclusions?  (Read 32454 times)

Offline bayareabrewer

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
Re: Low Oxygen Conclusions?
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2016, 03:02:46 pm »
pils and a small portion of c20 in place of carahell.

I would retry with pils and carahell. C20 is going to skew things, even carahell is only ~10srm. C10 would have been closer, but I am not a huge fan of Ameircan cara's.

When I make it to the homebrew shop I'll pick up a little. Is there a reason I have to use it at all? Cant I just use some pils and call it good? Why do I need a specialty malt to see results in the mini mash?

The Beerery

  • Guest
Re: Low Oxygen Conclusions?
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2016, 03:05:06 pm »
pils and a small portion of c20 in place of carahell.

I would retry with pils and carahell. C20 is going to skew things, even carahell is only ~10srm. C10 would have been closer, but I am not a huge fan of Ameircan cara's.

When I make it to the homebrew shop I'll pick up a little. Is there a reason I have to use it at all? Cant I just use some pils and call it good? Why do I need a specialty malt to see results in the mini mash?

No you are absolutely right, the reason for the carahell was because the Helles recipe contains carahell. Our defacto Helles recipe is 96/4 so the mini mash was presented to have the sameish ingredients as the big batch. You can certainly do pils only. For my curiousty, what pils do you have?

Offline bayareabrewer

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
Re: Low Oxygen Conclusions?
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2016, 03:15:32 pm »
pils and a small portion of c20 in place of carahell.

I would retry with pils and carahell. C20 is going to skew things, even carahell is only ~10srm. C10 would have been closer, but I am not a huge fan of Ameircan cara's.

When I make it to the homebrew shop I'll pick up a little. Is there a reason I have to use it at all? Cant I just use some pils and call it good? Why do I need a specialty malt to see results in the mini mash?

No you are absolutely right, the reason for the carahell was because the Helles recipe contains carahell. Our defacto Helles recipe is 96/4 so the mini mash was presented to have the sameish ingredients as the big batch. You can certainly do pils only. For my curiousty, what pils do you have?

briess and dingemans. I definitely prefer dingemams in most applications though. I would probably use that.

The Beerery

  • Guest
Re: Low Oxygen Conclusions?
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2016, 03:19:50 pm »
pils and a small portion of c20 in place of carahell.

I would retry with pils and carahell. C20 is going to skew things, even carahell is only ~10srm. C10 would have been closer, but I am not a huge fan of Ameircan cara's.

When I make it to the homebrew shop I'll pick up a little. Is there a reason I have to use it at all? Cant I just use some pils and call it good? Why do I need a specialty malt to see results in the mini mash?

No you are absolutely right, the reason for the carahell was because the Helles recipe contains carahell. Our defacto Helles recipe is 96/4 so the mini mash was presented to have the sameish ingredients as the big batch. You can certainly do pils only. For my curiousty, what pils do you have?

briess and dingemans. I definitely prefer dingemams in most applications though. I would probably use that.

I have not used dingmans, but I have used the american maltsters. I didn't find their flavor as pleasing as the German malts(take your pick, I hate bestmalz though, personal preference of course). It would be interesting to see what you got from that.

For your first mini-mash did you use the briess and the C20?

Offline bayareabrewer

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
Re: Low Oxygen Conclusions?
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2016, 03:23:51 pm »
pils and a small portion of c20 in place of carahell.

I would retry with pils and carahell. C20 is going to skew things, even carahell is only ~10srm. C10 would have been closer, but I am not a huge fan of Ameircan cara's.

When I make it to the homebrew shop I'll pick up a little. Is there a reason I have to use it at all? Cant I just use some pils and call it good? Why do I need a specialty malt to see results in the mini mash?

No you are absolutely right, the reason for the carahell was because the Helles recipe contains carahell. Our defacto Helles recipe is 96/4 so the mini mash was presented to have the sameish ingredients as the big batch. You can certainly do pils only. For my curiousty, what pils do you have?

briess and dingemans. I definitely prefer dingemams in most applications though. I would probably use that.

I have not used dingmans, but I have used the american maltsters. I didn't find their flavor as pleasing as the German malts(take your pick, I hate bestmalz though, personal preference of course). It would be interesting to see what you got from that.

For your first mini-mash did you use the briess and the C20?

regardless of malt, I should be seeing a distinct and improved difference, right? I used dingemans for the minimash.

Offline braufessor

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 354
Re: Low Oxygen Conclusions?
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2016, 03:44:57 pm »

Could you share the advise and what processes you used? Especially interested since you mentioned it took no additional time or effort.
These were the suggestions I received and what I did/will do:

I don't know if you have seen the site, but its www.lowoxygenbrewing.com, its details everything pretty good, but the simple version is this..

Pre-boil all brewing water, then once you start chilling to strike (sub 200F) add some crushed camden tabs, if you have any ascorbic acid, cut it 50/50. If you are a sparger the dosage will be a littler different, than if you don't.

Try and dough in gently, stir, but don't whip in air. Underlet, all transfers( or be as gentle as possible). Fashion some foil as a make shift mash/lauter/sparge cap.

Boil softly, target more of a simmer, with no more than 10% boil off and 1srm pickup.

Ferment cold 45-47F, NO RAMP, pitch roughly 2x more yeast as you normally would. transfer to keg with roughly 4 points remaining, if you have a spunding valve use it, if not you can adjust carbonation when you serve.

It's really as basic as preboil and dose camden, cover mash, boil soft, and naturally carb. Everything else is icing on the cake!
Any questions let me know!




I used crushed campden tablets (4 in 5 gallons of mash, 1 in 5 gallons of sparge). The website above ( www.lowoxygenbrewing.com ) is really good, really clear as far as laying out basic suggestions. I thought this interview was good/intesting interviewed on Fermentation Nation Podcast about LODO brewing http://fermentationnation.net/2016/1...th-bryan-rabe/

As I mentioned - I can only say that there were some distinct differences in the wort that came from this process.  Whether that translates in any way (good or bad) to the final beer is yet to be seen.

what kind of differences did you note? When I did the suggested mini mash, the difference was minimal and the LODO sample had kind of a raw dough note to it that was not particularly enjoyable.

When I did mine I used about 95% Weyerman pilsner malt, 3% Carapils and a couple ounces each of Cara Munich and Cara Amber for a bit of color.  I would say grainy in the sense of cereal would be a great descriptor.  Not "doughy" though.   It was not an overwhelming flavor, just very much different than what I am used to wort tasting like.  I am used to sweetness being front and center, with little else.  The kind of sweetness that almost hurts your teeth....  this had a nice grain flavor.  oatmeal, cracker, cereal..

Offline bayareabrewer

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
Re: Low Oxygen Conclusions?
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2016, 04:01:43 pm »
if there was a difference like that in my two samples, it was minimal at best, definitely not a game changer.

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: Low Oxygen Conclusions?
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2016, 05:13:17 pm »
Do you crush your own grain?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline bayareabrewer

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
Re: Low Oxygen Conclusions?
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2016, 05:21:09 pm »
Do you crush your own grain?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yup, 3 roll mill.

The Beerery

  • Guest
Re: Low Oxygen Conclusions?
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2016, 05:36:45 pm »
pils and a small portion of c20 in place of carahell.

I would retry with pils and carahell. C20 is going to skew things, even carahell is only ~10srm. C10 would have been closer, but I am not a huge fan of Ameircan cara's.

When I make it to the homebrew shop I'll pick up a little. Is there a reason I have to use it at all? Cant I just use some pils and call it good? Why do I need a specialty malt to see results in the mini mash?

No you are absolutely right, the reason for the carahell was because the Helles recipe contains carahell. Our defacto Helles recipe is 96/4 so the mini mash was presented to have the sameish ingredients as the big batch. You can certainly do pils only. For my curiousty, what pils do you have?

briess and dingemans. I definitely prefer dingemams in most applications though. I would probably use that.

I have not used dingmans, but I have used the american maltsters. I didn't find their flavor as pleasing as the German malts(take your pick, I hate bestmalz though, personal preference of course). It would be interesting to see what you got from that.

For your first mini-mash did you use the briess and the C20?

regardless of malt, I should be seeing a distinct and improved difference, right? I used dingemans for the minimash.

Not having used that malt before I can't speak to what it's going to taste like. If you picked up dough in your first one I would say maybe not.
Maybe it's not for you, which is a distinct possibility. Do you taste lingering fresh grain in a beer like bitburger or any mass produced and German? 

Offline juggabrew303

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
Re: Low Oxygen Conclusions?
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2016, 05:41:01 pm »
I assume that was uncapped, and covered (not that the cover is going to do a lot for you unless it seals up). 

Along those line, if I deoxygenate with yeast then how long do you suppose I could leave it there before I start using it?  My guess would be that there is some comfort room in there since the yeast are still around.

Yea thats correct.

~12hrs or so on the yeast method.
I assume if I pre measure my water the night before and add the yeast, this would work at room temp or even in my garage where it's 50f ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Beerery

  • Guest
Re: Low Oxygen Conclusions?
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2016, 05:45:22 pm »
Probably, but I don't have any hard data on that. All the tests were ran around 90f. I mean I know dough proofs in the fridge so it *should* work, but that's more of a guess/assumption. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline juggabrew303

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
Re: Low Oxygen Conclusions?
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2016, 09:55:09 pm »
Probably, but I don't have any hard data on that. All the tests were ran around 90f. I mean I know dough proofs in the fridge so it *should* work, but that's more of a guess/assumption. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Probably would be safer to just add the yeast before heating then.  If I did that, would I have to add more yeast than usual since leaving the water sit over night might  allow for more DO?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline bboy9000

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 703
  • KCMO
Re: Low Oxygen Conclusions?
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2016, 11:04:28 pm »
Not having used that malt before I can't speak to what it's going to taste like. If you picked up dough in your first one I would say maybe not.
Maybe it's not for you, which is a distinct possibility. Do you taste lingering fresh grain in a beer like bitburger or any mass produced and German?
I've had Bitburger many times and never get "fresh grain" flavor. In Missouri I get 6-month old Bitburger so maybe that's the reason.  I do get fresh grain flavor from Urban Chestnut's Zwickel and Shlafly's Helles, Kolsh and "White Lager."
Brian
mobrewer

The Beerery

  • Guest
Re: Low Oxygen Conclusions?
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2016, 06:40:21 am »
Probably, but I don't have any hard data on that. All the tests were ran around 90f. I mean I know dough proofs in the fridge so it *should* work, but that's more of a guess/assumption. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Probably would be safer to just add the yeast before heating then.  If I did that, would I have to add more yeast than usual since leaving the water sit over night might  allow for more DO?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You will need a minimum of an hour contact time with the yeast for maximum results. Dosage would stay the same.