[Stevie]

As a semi-bi-annual observer of homebrew topics, I would appreciate it if someone could  briefly explain what is currently considered to be a LODO homebrew process from grain to glass.  I think I practice homebrew LODO with the exception of HSA.

http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com

[Big Monk]

I was wondering if anyone here knows the percentage of Pro Breweries in the US that are LODO? Also, what breweries in particular that use these techniques?

By volume of market share over 70% of beer sold in the US is likely LODO.

EDIT:  Is it safe to say breweries using a BrauKon system are LODO?  If so, dozens of breweries.

Great observation. Krones as well. That means Hill Farmstead, Troegs, Uinta, Victory, allagash, etc.

[bayareabrewer]

I was wondering if anyone here knows the percentage of Pro Breweries in the US that are LODO? Also, what breweries in particular that use these techniques?

By volume of market share over 70% of beer sold in the US is likely LODO.

EDIT:  Is it safe to say breweries using a BrauKon system are LODO?  If so, dozens of breweries.

Great observation. Krones as well. That means Hill Farmstead, Troegs, Uinta, Victory, allagash, etc.

sooooo. 6 microbreweries might be LODO?

[Big Monk]

I was wondering if anyone here knows the percentage of Pro Breweries in the US that are LODO? Also, what breweries in particular that use these techniques?

By volume of market share over 70% of beer sold in the US is likely LODO.

EDIT:  Is it safe to say breweries using a BrauKon system are LODO?  If so, dozens of breweries.

Great observation. Krones as well. That means Hill Farmstead, Troegs, Uinta, Victory, allagash, etc.

sooooo. 6 microbreweries might be LODO?

Those are a few I can think of off the top of my head. Mainly BrauKon users. I'd have to search and see whose using Krones.

We are just having a discussion.

[klickitat jim]

Just an observation. The other day and new brewer posted a question about bottle conditioning and there were zero replies after 3 days. After less than 24 hrs a thread arguing about showing respect to scientific data gets 47 replies.

Edit, actually I think it was about a recipe...

[brulosopher]

I absolutely regret some of the more extreme things I said in prior xBmt articles including the first one on HSA from November 2014. That bit quoted by Big Monk was provocative, intended for my relatively small audience of readers.

I've wrestled with what do about those old articles and ultimately settled on leaving them alone, as I wouldn't want anyone to think we're hiding anything.

As for LoDO, well, we absolutely have plans to test it out. Not to disprove it, but to simply test it out. Admittedly, it's odd to me the decision was made to publish the paper, and recently the "infamous" experiments that were nothing more than anecdote, without solid sensory analysis backing the claims, but I'll reserve judgement.

Science is science. People can assume all they want about our approach, but I've done it various ways and I'm personally confident our methods are quite rigorous. Perhaps LoDO is the holy grail of brewing, I'm open to that, but when 99.9999% of people fear HSA sans LoDO methods, I'd say the xBmt referenced is at least somewhat meaningful.

Cheers all!

Marshall

[Big Monk]

As for LoDO, well, we absolutely have plans to test it out. Not to disprove it, but to simply test it out. Admittedly, it's odd to me the decision was made to publish the paper, and recently the "infamous" experiments that were nothing more than anecdote, without solid sensory analysis backing the claims, but I'll reserve judgement.

Define solid sensory analysis? We actually modeled that post after your format.

I'd hate to see you NOT reserve judgment.

Also, if you need any advice or guidance on the methods prior to your experiment hit us up. We'd love to help you make it a successful one.

[HoosierBrew]

I think that citizen science is what helps push a hobby forward. Previous to Ken Schwartz and Denny in the homebrewing community everyone thought all grain brewing had to be done with fly sparging. It's that kind of stuff, just like low oxygen on the homebrew scale, that helps people rethink the hobby.

Yeah, I agree. I think the whole thing is getting tired - renaming a lodo thread ends up with the same people arguing the same arguments pro and con (many of which have no intention to actually try it). I don't care who tries it or doesn't. But I do remember spending the first year or two homebrewing extract, extract with steeping grains, and partial mashing because much of the literature then pretty much told you that AG was almost too tough to pull off well. Tried it and decided that it wasn't that hard and that the extra time was more than worth it. Then batch sparging came along and there were the vehement arguments against it - it panned out pretty well. Can't help but think Mark (S.Cerv) is having a good chuckle somewhere. 

[bboy9000]

sooooo. 6 microbreweries might be LODO?

At least 30 from what I can tell.   Probably more.

[brulosopher]

As for LoDO, well, we absolutely have plans to test it out. Not to disprove it, but to simply test it out. Admittedly, it's odd to me the decision was made to publish the paper, and recently the "infamous" experiments that were nothing more than anecdote, without solid sensory analysis backing the claims, but I'll reserve judgement.

Define solid sensory analysis? We actually modeled that post after your format.

I'd hate to see you NOT reserve judgment.

Also, if you need any advice or guidance on the methods prior to your experiment hit us up. We'd love to help you make it a successful one.

By "solid sensory analysis" I was referring to pretty much any blind evaluation by the non-faithful. That "infamous" experiment Bryan put out there last week may have been modeled after what we do, but with all due respect, it missed the mark. By a long shot. 100% preference for the LoDO beer? That's either a statistical anomaly or... well...

Thanks for the offer! I'm in chats with some cool folks who advocate for low O2 brewing methods, I truly hope we're able to get it right.

[hopfenundmalz]

I was wondering if anyone here knows the percentage of Pro Breweries in the US that are LODO? Also, what breweries in particular that use these techniques?

That question could be turned around to ask the percentage of breweries in Germany that are LODO?

Big ones yes, modern regional ones yes, especially if they are mainly Helles producers. Older regional ones no. Small family breweries, no.

[hopfenundmalz]

I was wondering if anyone here knows the percentage of Pro Breweries in the US that are LODO? Also, what breweries in particular that use these techniques?

By volume of market share over 70% of beer sold in the US is likely LODO.

EDIT:  Is it safe to say breweries using a BrauKon system are LODO?  If so, dozens of breweries.

Great observation. Krones as well. That means Hill Farmstead, Troegs, Uinta, Victory, allagash, etc.

sooooo. 6 microbreweries might be LODO?

Those are a few I can think of off the top of my head. Mainly BrauKon users. I'd have to search and see whose using Krones.

We are just having a discussion.

So why are BrauKon equipped breweries LODO?

Sierra Nevada has the columns to deaerate the water for the brewery, and a tank on the order of 1000 bbls to store it. They use it throughout the brewery, including for wet milling under N2, then the slurry goes to the mash kettle, filling from the bottom (under N2?). They have a GEA Huppmann brewhouse.

I toured the largest brewery in MI last Wed. They wet mill and have a modern 200 bbl. GEA Huppmann brewhouse. They just use Deareated water to push beer, not to supply the wet mill.

I am just pointing out that the water treatment is up stream, and next time I am in a brewery with the column strippers, I will see if I can see A manufactures tag. It is probably optional as to if you have DA water or not.

The MI brewery has a new Krones bottling line, and a fairly new KHS canning line.

[Iliff Ave]

Just an observation. The other day and new brewer posted a question about bottle conditioning and there were zero replies after 3 days. After less than 24 hrs a thread arguing about showing respect to scientific data gets 47 replies.

Edit, actually I think it was about a recipe...

Very good point. Discussion regarding other topics seems to have taken quite a back seat...

[brulosopher]

I was wondering if anyone here knows the percentage of Pro Breweries in the US that are LODO? Also, what breweries in particular that use these techniques?

By volume of market share over 70% of beer sold in the US is likely LODO.

EDIT:  Is it safe to say breweries using a BrauKon system are LODO?  If so, dozens of breweries.

Great observation. Krones as well. That means Hill Farmstead, Troegs, Uinta, Victory, allagash, etc.

sooooo. 6 microbreweries might be LODO?

Those are a few I can think of off the top of my head. Mainly BrauKon users. I'd have to search and see whose using Krones.

We are just having a discussion.

So why are BrauKon equipped breweries LODO?

Sierra Nevada has the columns to deaerate the water for the brewery, and a tank on the order of 1000 bbls to store it. They use it throughout the brewery, including for wet milling under N2, then the slurry goes to the mash kettle, filling from the bottom (under N2?). They have a GEA Huppmann brewhouse.

I toured the largest brewery in MI last Wed. They wet mill and have a modern 200 bbl. GEA Huppmann brewhouse. They just use Deareated water to push beer, not to supply the wet mill.

I am just pointing out that the water treatment is up stream, and next time I am in a brewery with the column strippers, I will see if I can see A manufactures tag. It is probably optional as to if you have DA water or not.

The MI brewery has a new Krones bottling line, and a fairly new KHS canning line.

I certainly respect Sierra Nevada, but if that's what LoDO tastes like, I'm not blown away.

[Big Monk]

As for LoDO, well, we absolutely have plans to test it out. Not to disprove it, but to simply test it out. Admittedly, it's odd to me the decision was made to publish the paper, and recently the "infamous" experiments that were nothing more than anecdote, without solid sensory analysis backing the claims, but I'll reserve judgement.

Define solid sensory analysis? We actually modeled that post after your format.

I'd hate to see you NOT reserve judgment.

Also, if you need any advice or guidance on the methods prior to your experiment hit us up. We'd love to help you make it a successful one.

By "solid sensory analysis" I was referring to pretty much any blind evaluation by the non-faithful. That "infamous" experiment Bryan put out there last week may have been modeled after what we do, but with all due respect, it missed the mark. By a long shot. 100% preference for the LoDO beer? That's either a statistical anomaly or... well...

Thanks for the offer! I'm in chats with some cool folks who advocate for low O2 brewing methods, I truly hope we're able to get it right.

Interesting. I recall a smattering of non initiated tasters, average craft beer drinkers and a few more advanced but non low oxygen Brewers. Faithful?

No offense to you but I find it hard to believe that your tasters are free of influence from the Brulosophy organization.