Author Topic: Low oxygen brewing yield  (Read 995 times)

Offline homoeccentricus

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Low oxygen brewing yield
« on: December 31, 2016, 05:25:26 PM »
Just wondering why Belgian brewers don't care about HSA. Could the yield of low oxygen brewing techniques be higher or lower depending on the types of beer?  Here are some possibilities:
1. The lighter the color the higher the yield.
2. The lower the alcohol content the higher the yield.
3. The more hoppy the beer the higher the yield.
4. The more phenols the yeast produces the lower the yield.

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Offline lupulus

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Re: Low oxygen brewing yield
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2016, 05:44:03 PM »
What is the exact definition of yield to you?

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Big Monk

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Re: Low oxygen brewing yield
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2016, 05:59:41 PM »
Which Belgian Brewers are you talking about? Regional ones? Some microbreweries in the states don't care about oxidation either.

Some of the Trappists are displaying some of the fresh grain flavors that the Low Oxygen methods are striving for so it's a questions of who doesn't care?


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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Low oxygen brewing yield
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2016, 06:14:04 PM »
The ratio between the investment in terms of hardware, ingredients, time and energy versus the immediate flavor improvement.
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Low oxygen brewing yield
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2016, 06:23:28 PM »
Which Belgian Brewers are you talking about? Regional ones? Some microbreweries in the states don't care about oxidation either.

Some of the Trappists are displaying some of the fresh grain flavors that the Low Oxygen methods are striving for so it's a questions of who doesn't care?


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For instance the Struise Brouwers. I've seen waterfalls of hot wort.
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Offline denny

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Re: Low oxygen brewing yield
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2016, 06:38:03 PM »
Which Belgian Brewers are you talking about? Regional ones? Some microbreweries in the states don't care about oxidation either.

Some of the Trappists are displaying some of the fresh grain flavors that the Low Oxygen methods are striving for so it's a questions of who doesn't care?


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For instance the Struise Brouwers. I've seen waterfalls of hot wort.

Or you have Anchor Brewing (not exactly a small brewery) here in the US..."The fermentation of Anchor Steam® Beer takes place in our shallow, very wide, open fermenting pans, cooled entirely by filtered San Francisco air moving through the fermentation room. These fermenters are an important part of our unique brewing history and represent a marked difference from the vertical tanks found in other breweries in America. Except for the occasional hot day, we still simply use the naturally cool air from San Francisco's foggy coastal climate."
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Big Monk

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Re: Low oxygen brewing yield
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2016, 06:48:46 PM »
The ratio between the investment in terms of hardware, ingredients, time and energy versus the immediate flavor improvement.

It's so tough to say. So many larger breweries just have this stuff as their SOP. that's just the way they make beer.

Other smaller regional breweries would have to wrestle with the cost of implementation versus how much they could expect their product to improve. Many of them would likely get blowback from consumers should their flavor profile change.

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Low oxygen brewing yield
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2016, 06:59:06 PM »
My main point is those rules, not so much the definition of yield.
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Big Monk

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Low oxygen brewing yield
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2016, 07:08:03 PM »
I'm still not sure what you are asking. Are you talking cost of implementation of a Low Oxygen brewing system to benefit of the beers on that system?


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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Low oxygen brewing yield
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2016, 07:31:06 PM »
No let's say motivation for the homebrewer. If he brews a RIS he may not " need " the lodo techniques as much.
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Big Monk

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Re: Low oxygen brewing yield
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2016, 07:39:39 PM »
No let's say motivation for the homebrewer. If he brews a RIS he may not " need " the lodo techniques as much.

I think with recipe tweaks and the like that every beer can benefit. I'm going to be doing a Belgian run soon and a RIS Lager at some point this winter. In the overall sense, even if you don't count the fresh grain flavors for pale beers which the methods brings, you will still have a very stable beer though to packaging and that a positive for any beer.

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Low oxygen brewing yield
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2016, 08:22:49 PM »
So you deny the validity of my " rules" .
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Big Monk

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Low oxygen brewing yield
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2016, 08:26:20 PM »
So you deny the validity of my " rules" .

I'd say there is a fair bit more latitude then the "rules" imply.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 09:59:25 PM by Big Monk »

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Re: Low oxygen brewing yield
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2017, 01:30:28 AM »
1. The lighter the color the higher the yield.
2. The lower the alcohol content the higher the yield.
3. The more hoppy the beer the higher the yield.
4. The more phenols the yeast produces the lower the yield.

So the more I thought about your guidelines above the more I thought that answering back with one sentence was short sighted.

In fact, your 4 points above give a very solid springboard from which to discuss a few misconceptions.

Here is what I mean:

1.) There seems to be an assumption here by some, not all and definitely not you directly, that using many of the Continental and Domestic Macro brewing methods (of which the Low Oxygen homebrewing subset is derived) is somehow relegated only to light lagers. In truth, it's really a malt thing and not a style thing. For instance, yes there is a definite reason to do it with light lagers that are really base malt driven and have delicate profiles to which the Low Oxygen methods enhance greatly. Yet how many people are using different pale Malts in things like RIS? I've seen many recipes contain Maris otter, pale ale malt, Pilsner, Vienna, Munich, etc. the point here is, Low Oxygen enhances the flavors of all these base Malts and if people notice enough of a difference using Munich malt or Maris Otter in something like a stout using regular methods, then Low Oxygen is only going to enhance that. Also, it will enhance and reimagine cara malt and roast malt flavors as well. So:

ANSWER: all color beers benefit in some way.

2.) This one is true to an extent for any beer brewed with any method. You start creeping into alcohol heat territory and it doesn't matter what methods you are using.

ANSWER: I'll give you this one if you are brewing monster beers and nothing else.

3.) I'll give you this one. The hop character is going to be enhanced in the absence of oxygen.

ANSWER:

4.) A bit of anecdotal evidence to the contrary: the other night I was speaking with someone who's tastebuds I trust who was drinking a Chimay Cinq Cents after not having one for some time. He was picking up the fresh grain characteristics that are a hallmark of the Low Oxygen methods. Now I'm not saying that Chimay is Low Oxygen, nor am I saying that Chimay is one of the more phenolic monastic Brewers, but hey.....

ANSWER: It remains to be seen. I plan on a full Belgian run (Table, Dubbel, Tripel and DS), multiple runs actually, to experiment with a laundry list of variables I've put down on paper. Given what I've tasted in commercial examples, I think fermentation and carbonation can be leveraged to make Low Oxygen and Trappist yeasts very good friends.

Hope this is more expansive and friendly to discussion more than my one sentence was!

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Low oxygen brewing yield
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2017, 03:59:50 AM »
No let's say motivation for the homebrewer. If he brews a RIS he may not " need " the lodo techniques as much.
"Need"? Maybe not just imperial stout.