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Author Topic: Dry Hopping Advice  (Read 6352 times)

Offline zwiller

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Re: Dry Hopping Advice
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2016, 12:13:38 pm »
If I can get another week or so from ascorbic acid, I will be happy.     


Or more. That's my thinking. I don't see it as Brewtan B which in my opinion seems to improve beer as well as hopefully extending shelf life. I see ascorbic more as a second line of defense to (hopefully) combat oxidation from kegging, extend shelf life and especially hop aroma life.
I think preserving DH requires a different approach and it makes sense in my mind to treat at packaging and ascorbic acid just makes so much sense.  Be careful tho, ascorbic acid is said to impart fruity flavors to beer and that is definitely something we don't want. ;D  In the interest of complete disclosure, I think it is possible we may have to increase dosing for a large hoppy beer like IPA.  That might explain why not everyone is convinced that it works.  My Vitamin C IPA is on deck next and will report my findings.  Plan on sticking to the 1tsp per 5G.   



I don't go beyond on hoppy beers, because I don't want to hit the flavor threshold. Curious to see what you think.

I found some dosing rates getting thrown around the pro forums but have not completely researched yet.  I will say in my travels with polyclar I called the mfr and got a confirmation for them that dosing needs to be adjusted for for larger beers and/or hoppier ones.  From that, it is my belief that nearly all dosing rates we see for things of this nature are for megaswill so I tend to think we need to be mindful.  My homework tonight: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0ahUKEwjjt7qe7f3OAhUK5SYKHagrAWsQFgg_MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.agraria.com.br%2Fextranet%2Farquivos%2Fagromalte_arquivo%2Fmetodos_melhoria_estabilidade_senroarial_-_ing.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGQYwuTs-go4Bw6UOYeviv4po8BFQ&bvm=bv.131783435,d.eWE&cad=rja
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Dry Hopping Advice
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2016, 12:20:20 pm »
If I can get another week or so from ascorbic acid, I will be happy.     


Or more. That's my thinking. I don't see it as Brewtan B which in my opinion seems to improve beer as well as hopefully extending shelf life. I see ascorbic more as a second line of defense to (hopefully) combat oxidation from kegging, extend shelf life and especially hop aroma life.
I think preserving DH requires a different approach and it makes sense in my mind to treat at packaging and ascorbic acid just makes so much sense.  Be careful tho, ascorbic acid is said to impart fruity flavors to beer and that is definitely something we don't want. ;D  In the interest of complete disclosure, I think it is possible we may have to increase dosing for a large hoppy beer like IPA.  That might explain why not everyone is convinced that it works.  My Vitamin C IPA is on deck next and will report my findings.  Plan on sticking to the 1tsp per 5G.   



I don't go beyond on hoppy beers, because I don't want to hit the flavor threshold. Curious to see what you think.

I found some dosing rates getting thrown around the pro forums but have not completely researched yet.  I will say in my travels with polyclar I called the mfr and got a confirmation for them that dosing needs to be adjusted for for larger beers and/or hoppier ones.  From that, it is my belief that nearly all dosing rates we see for things of this nature are for megaswill so I tend to think we need to be mindful.  My homework tonight: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0ahUKEwjjt7qe7f3OAhUK5SYKHagrAWsQFgg_MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.agraria.com.br%2Fextranet%2Farquivos%2Fagromalte_arquivo%2Fmetodos_melhoria_estabilidade_senroarial_-_ing.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGQYwuTs-go4Bw6UOYeviv4po8BFQ&bvm=bv.131783435,d.eWE&cad=rja


Cool, thanks for posting. Gonna read it tonight myself.
Jon H.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Dry Hopping Advice
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2016, 04:39:18 pm »
  My homework tonight: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0ahUKEwjjt7qe7f3OAhUK5SYKHagrAWsQFgg_MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.agraria.com.br%2Fextranet%2Farquivos%2Fagromalte_arquivo%2Fmetodos_melhoria_estabilidade_senroarial_-_ing.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGQYwuTs-go4Bw6UOYeviv4po8BFQ&bvm=bv.131783435,d.eWE&cad=rja


My takeaways:

1/  "The main causative agent of flavor staling is the hydroxyl radical.
A reduced rate of flavor deterioration would be achieved more
effectively by preventing hydroxyl radical development through
processing than by over emphasizing the direct uptake of oxygen."

Sounds like an argument against the GBF 'eliminate every O2 molecule at all costs' approach. So in principle, more in favor of things like Brewtan B which seems to prevent the oxidative reaction.



2/  "Ascorbic acid. This widely used scavenger of the superoxide
radical (17) when added at 12 mg/L increased the resistance-tostaling
value (RSV) of the lager from 219 to 318. (Ascorbic acid
may also scavenge hydroxyl ion."

Seems like some value there. Cheap insurance for me.
Jon H.

Offline zwiller

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Re: Dry Hopping Advice
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2016, 07:39:34 am »
Same takeaways here.  Interesting the ascorbic acid dosing is very low about 250mg per 5G if ran it right so 1tsp (4-5g?) should be plenty.  I was hoping there would a taste threshold or more info. 
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline Hand of Dom

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Re: Dry Hopping Advice
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2016, 01:12:09 pm »
Some anecdotal evidence with respect to the ascorbic acid use.  I've recently made two batches of this beer, with minor differences in recipe (in the first batch 30% of my aroma/dry hop was Citra, and in the second I used Falconer's Flight).  In the second batch I forgot to add ascorbic at bottling, and the aroma does seem to have dropped off quicker than the first.  Never having used either Citra or FF previously, I can't conclude whether this is down to the choice of hops, or the lack of ascorbic, but I thought I'd raise it as a data point.
Dom

Currently drinking - Amarillo saison
Currently fermenting - Pale ale 1 - 2017

Offline Kutaka

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Re: Dry Hopping Advice
« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2016, 07:33:44 pm »
You might want to review some published brewing science regarding ascorbic acid.  I recall using it properly calls for using another additive, which I think is a sulfite.  Using aa alone was once thought to be beneficial, but later testing determined using it alone was more harmful than beneficial.  The dosage of both was critical to getting a beneficial result.  I doubt using the combination properly will improve things more than taking steps to reduce DO. 

Offline Indy574

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Re: Dry Hopping Advice
« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2016, 08:25:14 pm »
Typically I rack to a secondary and dry hop with 1-2 oz of hops. The last batch which I bottled a week ago I left in the primary and dry hopped with 4-1/2 oz.  When I bottled, it was an amazing smell which filled the room. My wife commented that she could smell it across the room.
Very excited to crack one open in another week.